First let me state it's a great find to meet people who are kind, helpful, and knowledgeable like (you), the members of NC Woodworker. I'm proud to be a new member and and hopeful of learning a lot.
Every thing I have learned about woodworking, I have learned on my own. I'm sure most of you have forgotten more about woodworking than I'll ever know. To date, It's all been trial and error. I've built some amazing construction projects like decks and and fences, and other construction type projects, and have started some furniture projects just to find out I don't have the items I need to finish them. This has been an expensive learning process. I'm hoping to become more of a craftsman instead of the construction type projects I've been doing.
Several months back I purchased a 17" Grizzly Bandsaw, a floor model Grizzly Mortising Machine, and floor model Edge Sander w/wrap around table. I have three mitre type saws, a Bosch Table Saw which the stand folds down and becomes portable, and many of the other items i need.
What I didn't realize was how important a good Jointer and good Planer is. I put the cart before the horse and bought some amazing wood which requires a larger Jointer and Planer. I need a jointer at least 12" wide, and a planer at least 16"+. I've been looking at Oliver Jointers, found a Bridgewood Jointer via thread through North Carolina Woodworker, Northfield, and others like Grizzly and Jet.
Planers I have not done as much research on as I think you need the jointer in order to use the planer. I have so many questions, but figured this was my best starting point. I was hoping not to keep the cost as low as possible for a 12"+ jointer, but have come to the realization it won't be cheap. The stock I have is 10" to about 18", and one piece which is 33 1/2" wide. Thankfully that piece has already been planed. It's all mahoganny and ambrosia maple, and some walnut and cherry.
Hopefully I've provided you all with enough info, (and probably too much), about my needs. Thank you all for your type, and look forward to reading your input.
I hope this doesn't sound patronizing, but do you have a $2000 - $4000 budget to spend on these tools ? If you get buy used and get lucky, you *might* get away at around the $2K price point for the pair.
Beyond that, there's really no magic to a planer and jointer. All the major manuf. have good machines in the 12" jointer and 15-16" planer size (note that 16" planer has become an oddball size on the new market..mostly it goes from 15"->20" now in the light commercial stuff). I'd probably focus most on whether the machine is in good running order or not, rather than a specific brand *provided the machine is from a major manuf*.
Do you have a preference for new or used ? New is new, but used is usually cheaper, however the used market has some additional risks. For example, Rockwell/Delta made a nice 18" planer, but at least one of the critical components is no longer available, so if that's gone (or goes), you need to find a machinist. Are you up for those sorts of challenges ?
We're in the category of heavy machinery here, and I don't have too much expertise in this area, but let's make a list of considerations:
What sort of volume are we talking about here? The JET jointer/ planer I have is a serious piece of equipment, but if we're talking industrial applications, then you want to think Oliver, Hammer, etc.
Do you have access to 3-phase power? If you do, the used market has a LOT of possibilities
Think about what you need 80%-90% of the time, not 100%. For really wide boards, you can always go find a cabinet shop or lumber yard that can surface those once-every-ten-years pieces of wood
If necessary, you can use the planer and a sled to joint a wide piece of lumber. It takes a lot more time, but if it doesn't happen too often, you can go with a smaller jointer and save some money.
What sort of lumber do you plan to process? Oak and walnut will do great on regular knives, but if you're surfacing highly figured wood you'll get a lot of tear out. A helical head with carbide inserts will greatly help with that, but it's not cheap
Do you have a good dust collection system? For a 16" jointer/ 20" planer, you'll need a solid 3HP cyclone, or you'll clog your machines. With duct work and hoses, that willl add at least $2500 for a shop your size
So your budget is definitely an important consideration here. Tell us how much you got and we'll help you spend it in no time
Lots of questions: all good ones, and many of which I do not have the answer to. I had an opportunity to purchase an American Jointer from around 1910 for $1400. He backed out at the last second. It was a 12", and I saw it in action. He trimmed down an old piece of bubbinga like it was butter on that thing. I keep hoping it will come available again, but I'm doubtful. He went to the Penland School and is a master craftsman; he's also who I bought all my would from, along with a couple of great sanders.
I figure on spending around $4000 for both machines,,,but am spoiled by my wife, so if I decided on a new Oliver or an old jointer up for auction, she would support it. The difficulty is most likely, I will have to purchase one machine at a time.
Don't have a lot of space, but am a master of making use of the space I have. I'll most likely put the planer and the jointer on a very well built pallet, and use my pallet jack to get them out of the garage when I need to use them. Not the ideal, but the necessity for now. We intend to move toward Penland, NC when housing sales around us pick back up, so could be 1 year or 5 years; just wanting to get back to the mountains.
In my book, this is the best planer and best jointer. Not cheap. I don't own either, but have seen both close up, and have seen them in operation. The Martin T45 and T54. New, will probably only set you back around $30K.
My wife would be upset if she even knew I was looking at the pictures of these....
There are a lot of good quality planers and jointers around that are much more reasonably priced, but you did ask for the best.
If I was just getting going good, I would get a 8" parallelogram jointer like a DJ-20 or similar from Grizzly and a DeWalt DW735 planer.
The 12" G0609 for $1795 with free shipping seems a good deal.
The 20" G0454 for $1425 plus shipping fits into your budget.
If you can get a little into the budget, spiral, carbide insert, cutterheads on each would a good choice. The size of machines you need are larger than most of what you will find on the used listings, and then they are used, which can mean reduced cost, but it can also mean added risk.
When I was looking for tools last spring, Dave O. recommended talking to this gent, who made a good offer on ShopFox machines. And this source would be fairly close to you.
Rick DiNardoThe Moulding Source, Inc. 184 Azalea Road Mooresville, North Carolina 28115 www.themouldingsource.com Telephone 704.658.1111 Facsimile 704.663.0077 Mobile 704.975.2882
1 - type of cutting head. Carbide insert spiral cutterhead is the most quiet and has the least tearout on figured woods. Most folks that use one do not go back to straight knife heads.
2 - Horsepower. More is better.
3 - length of infeed and outfeed tables - more is better.
Again, thanks for your continued support and suggestions. Have looked at the IRS auction site, but shipping is a concern, as well as not being able to see the machine run. I have three pieces of Grizzly equipment. I love the bandsaw and edge sander, but the mortising machine has some quirks I wish I had known about but investing that kind of money. Since then I have stumbled on some others I would rather have spent the money on.
I was at Klingspor in Greensboro a couple of months back, and it seems people are either fans of Grizzly or they are not??? Is that a fair characterization or not? Is anyone familiar with the Oliver brand, and if so what is your take?
As I stated before, I'm very new to the larger machinery, but am figuring it all out well, and learning as I go. I'm pretty sure I need to stick with a single phase model as I'm not real sure about the whole converter thing, and it's an added expense I don't really want. Oddly enough, I do not have any of the electrical requirements to run anything over standard 110v. This brings up a new question. Does anyone know what it would cost to have a 220 line installed? I've never dealt with running a new line before so the cost is causing a little anxiety. I'm pretty used to doing it all myself, but that one is outside of my comfort zone.
I'm sure as you learn about me you will recognize I am very new to much of this and fulfilling my dreams of woodworking later than most people start, but I learn fairly easy, and I've always been a firm believer that if you buy the best you can afford, it will last if taken care of.
Lastly, there is a 16" Bridgewood Jointer posted on a thread from NC Woodworker. Is anyone familiar with this brand and what do you think. Would love to hear from someone who really knows. It has the helical head which seems to be much coveted and easier to replace cutters than blades. Is this true? LMK.
I was at Klingspor in Greensboro a couple of months back, and it seems people are either fans of Grizzly or they are not???
Well, there are only two options of course :-) Grizzly typically has the best value in tools. That doesn't mean it's the best, but for the money, you probably won't do better. A good example is the 1023SL cabinet saw, which is just under $1000 shipped. It sets the standard for everything else. It's not as nice as say a Powermatic or Sawstop, but it's certainly a great machine, and it helps keep all the other prices competitive. I have a Grizzly band saw and used to have one of their jointers, zero complaints with either machine.
Overall, Grizzly's quality has increased over the years, and their sweet spot is with the bigger machinery. I've seen the Grizzly mortising machine, and wasn't impressed either. So for the smaller items, it pays to shop around.
Originally Posted by BeamK9
Does anyone know what it would cost to have a 220 line installed?
You'll need to be more specific. It could be $100, it could be $5000. I had a subpanel installed in my shop recently. It wasn't too far from the main panel (35ft or so). Between the cable, subpanel, breakers & electrician's labor, I spent $1000. The rest of the wiring (conduit, outlets, lights) I did myself. Can you do it all yourself? It depends. If you have room in your current panel, and you can easily run a wire in the wall or via conduit, it's a relatively straightforward task. If you have to add a subpanel, or rearrange the existing breakers to make room, you should probably call an electrician. Not knowing your skill level or comfort level, plus the fact that there are electrical codes to consider and there is the potential for electrocution/ fire, I don't think you'll get a firm answer on this one.
Originally Posted by BeamK9
Lastly, there is a 16" Bridgewood Jointer posted on a thread from NC Woodworker. Is anyone familiar with this brand and what do you think. Would love to hear from someone who really knows. It has the helical head which seems to be much coveted and easier to replace cutters than blades. Is this true?
I can't comment on the Bridgewood brand, but as for the helical head with carbide inserts: Yes, those are much easier to replace. With standard knive systems, you insert the knife into a gib and then tighten several screws to hold the knife in place. The knives all have to be set at the same height, level or just above the outfeed table. Sounds simple, until you discover that tightening the gib screws moves the knifes ever so slightly. And when you have to get things within 0.02", ever so slightly is too much. There are also indexed knife systems that don't have this problem. With carbide inserts, each cutter is a square that's attached to the head via a screw. To replace, loosen the screw, insert the new cutter, and tighten. Best of all, carbide lasts a lot longer than steel.
Since you've never set knives in the jointer, let me subtly hint about how I feel about this task: I'd rather have the dentist fill a cavity than replace the knives in a jointer. I'd rather hand-sand an end grain cutting board level with 220 grit sandpaper than replace the knives in a jointer. I'd rather hear JimmyC complain about Golden Corral for three days straight rather than replace the knives in a jointer. I'd rather fall into a bucket of peach paint rather than replace the knives in a jointer. I'd rather clean the glue off all my clamps rather than replace the knives in a jointer. I'd rather smear polyurethane glue in my hair rather than replace the knives in a jointer.