cell phone question

[Keye]

Saw this question on a different woodworkers web site and as usual with this site it quickly turned into adults acting like immature kids.

Thought the question was a good one so I thought I would ask it here.

The cell phone companies have a racquet with requiring you to buy a new phone if you move from one company to another. The question was about the ability to "unlock" the codes that prevent a phone from working with more than one company. I looked and there are several web sites that offer software downloads to do this. The sites said after "unlocking" your phone you could take it to the new company and all they would have to do is install one of there SIM cards. I went to a Verizon store and was told they do not see how this works. They said Verizon and Alltel do not even use SIM cards, Cingular and Sprint stilll do. I was also told if I brought in a phone that was formerly Alltel, even with the codes "unlocked" the Verizon system would recognize the phone was not from Verizon and not activate it.

One of the excuses for requiring contracts is because the phones are either free or sold at a big discount. If phones were portable from compay to company it would shoot a hole in that excuse.

Anyone know anything about all this?

[ebarr]

I frequently have anywhere from 10 to 20 old cell phones in my office. We normally donate them to different charities. Every once in awhile I give one to someone that needs an old phone in case of emergency.

Every once in a while I give someone a phone that they can not activate on their account Alltel or Verizon will tell them they can not activate it because they see something funny with the serial number. They would not even activate the phones with a letter from the company stating it was ok to have the phone turned on.

Funny thing is this only happens once every 30 or so phones. So it has to be something screwed up in their system.

For the most part I have always had pretty good luck with Alltel and Verizon, despite all the horror stories I have heard.

[Travis Porter]

The phones have a 10 digit code burned into them and that is how the cell companies track what phone belongs to what cell company. There was legislation in progress to force the cell companies to allow moving phones from network to network, but I have not heard what happened to it recently.

Still today, you cannot take a phone from one network to another. In some instances it is technologically impossible as not all carriers use the same wireless technology, in the other instances, they just won't do it.

Lastly, you can get phones pretty cheap or free when you sign up for service. If you are using a Blackberry or something I can see wanting to bring it with you, but for the plain jane phones I don't think it makes sense.

[Robert Arrowood]

Not to mention that it's just another way for big brother to keep up with us.

[dave "dhi"]

here here robert... isnt that the truth !!

[Gotcha6]

I HEARD THAT!

[scsmith42]

Adding on to Travis's comments about the IMEI numbers (International Mobile Equipment Identifier)...

The wireless industry in the US has undergone a number of different technological evolutions since it launched in the early 80's. At first, pretty much all of the phones were on similar technology (old analog cellular), but once digital technology started rolling out in the mid 90's - as well as additional PCS frequencies released by the FCC, the technological architectures became non-standardized. Coupled with the rollout of the European architecture - GSM, as well as the ESMR architecture used by Nextel - iDEN, and all of a sudden there were about 5 or 6 different technologies in use on at least three different spectrum ranges.

This occurred for several reasons - part of it was because when digital technology was in it's infancy the various manufacturers were each pushing their own product, and also partially because various technologies offered advantages over the others and cell phone companies sought to truly differentiate themselves with the technology, as opposed to the cosmetic frills.

What most folks don't know is that other than very basic phones, the cell phone companies pay between $200 - 300.00 for the handsets to the manufacturers. When they discount a phone in order to sign up a new subscriber, typically it takes 7 - 9 months to recover their cost before they start to make a monthly profit on the new customer. That's why they all want you to sign a 2 year contract - otherwise they can't discount the phone.

There are still significant and real differences between the various technologies, but they are evaporating as the wireless companies merge and adopt similar technologies (for cost reasons). Three years ago AT&T had seven different technological architectures in their network - due to the different technologies used by pre-merger companies as well as legacy networks. You can bet that having to manage so many different technologies and provisioning systems is a competitive disadvantage for them, and over time they will standardize.

Most of the US carriers are gravitating to a third generation GSM/CDMA architecture which will allow them to carry high speed data and voice on the same network. The future generations of phones will probably be IP based.

Europe launched their digital cellular system later than the US, and was able to select a common architecture called GSM (Global System for Mobile Communications). Because the different companies use a similar architecture, the hardware is compatible and it can be provisioned on a different network.

Although some US wireless companies now use similar technologies, there are still some differences, which is why you can't take your phone with you.

There's another dimension as well, and that is the average useful lifespan of a phone. Most folks end up replacing their phones about every two years due to the wear and tear on the handset. Batteries rarely last more than 2 years - if that long, and why spend 60 bucks on a new battery for a worn phone if you can get a subsidized new one for just a little more?

The bottom line is that there is no "racquet"; there are very real technological issues that prevent the migration across most of the networks.

Scott

[alleng]

when you realythink about it,those cheap or socalled free phones aint REALY cheap OR free.. i carry one for work,but dont have a plan of my own. i just hate the thoughts of having to sighn a CONTRACT for a year or two just for phone service. what if i change my mind,or another provider gives a cheaper rate?

[alleng]

thats a lot of abriviations scott!

[scsmith42]

Allen - do you remember that line in the movie "Airplane" where Florence Henderson told the stewardess that "Pardon me maam - I talk Jive"?!

Well, I've been known to talk "acronym"! Don Patterson (Touchwood) and Travis Porter can too, should they wish, and I'm sure that there are others on the forum with a telecom background as well.

What's really confusing is when you have the same letter acronyms with different meanings, based upon the part of the network architecture that you're referencing.

[alleng]

yes i do rember that movie,as for the acronims,it takes me a littlelonger cause i have to do a bit of cypherin to figure em out

[lottathought]

Scott pretty much nailed it from what I see.

And the Verizon rep was telling the truth.
Neither Verizon or Alltel have the SIM cards.
In fact, you can verify this for yourself. The SIM card is usually tucked under the battery in cell phones for companies like AT&T/Cingular, etc.
It looks a little like an SD card and can be transferred from phone to phone.
Neither Alltel or Verizon have this.

Scott also was correct about Europe.
Europe's telcos never invested in the "Last Mile" infrastructure to people's homes like the US did. They were less advanced and the idea of a phone in everybody's home did not become a reality until after the cell phone hit the market. This makes it a lot easier for those telcos to financially stomach a faster advancement in technology.
What most people do not know is that the "Last Mile"..or the running to each person's house in this country is by far the most expensive part of telco's infrastructure. And any new technology can only be useful and make financial sense if that last mile can utilize the new improvement.
You would be amazed at how much better and improved telco would be if we all already had fiber coming into our homes instead of copper.

And in Europe, any phone they sell over there can be used in most any network.
That is starting to become the case here and I think that Verizon Wireless will accept any phone on their network later this year.