Dust Collection Question...

Dust Collection Question... · 12-19-2008, 03:26 PM

I have a feeling that I am opening a can of worms here, but here goes:

I am thinking about a dust collection system for the shop. Right now, I am just using the shopvac and I can't afford an actual system yet. I would like to go ahead and put up the pipes to start with and just use the shopvac until I can upgrade. Anyway, being on a cheap-skate budget, I was thinking about using ductwork or PVC.

Pros/Cons of each?

What say you?

Thanks!

ptt49er · 12-19-2008, 03:40 PM

The shopvac won't have the power to overcome all of the losses in the duct/pvc pipe.

At best I think you'd be very dissappointed.

But if you can swing the pipe, why not go ahead and run the system? Just keep using the shop vac like you have been.

12-19-2008, 03:43 PM

Best dust collection system ever invented is a broom dustpan and a garbage can

christopheralan · 12-19-2008, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by jeff...

Best dust collection system ever invented is a broom dustpan and a garbage can

I tried that before, but I can't get the broom plugged in...

Marlin · 12-19-2008, 04:04 PM

This is what I got...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Professional-Woo...3A1%7C294%3A50

Its $70 + $28.46 for shipping. You can still use the Live deal and get 8% off the $70.

It is a basic one but for running on 1 tool is fine.

gfernandez · 12-19-2008, 06:44 PM

For more information than you could possibly ever use on dust collection, you may want to check out

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

Makinsawdust · 12-19-2008, 07:23 PM

[quote=gfernandez;198995]For more information than you could possibly ever use on dust collection, you may want to check out

Ditto the above comment.

To answer your question about which type pipe; go with sewer & drain PVC. It's easy to work with , cheap, & will last forever. If you read Bill Pentz's info you'll be convinced that nothing smaller than 6" pipe should be used. On small garage size DC's (1.5hp and smaller) going to larger than 5" may cause a loss of air velocity that could result in poor chip removal up vertical runs. I kinda like mine to remove chips along with the dust. IMO, the KISS principal kicks in on small DC units. They have 4" ports, the big box stores have plenty of cheap 4" PVC S&D pipe and our local WW'ing stores have 4" flex hose and blast gates for the connections.
Since you are not ready to buy the DC yet, you could just start buying wye's, blast gates, clamps, etc so that when you get one you'll be ready to set it all up.
Rob

merrill77 · 12-19-2008, 09:34 PM

The quick answer is probably PVC - specifically the cheaper S&D PVC (2427 or 3035). In general, it is easier to assemble, customize and seal.

You didn't mention what your goal is. If it is merely to keep the shop clean, then 4" pipes will do you well. However, a shop-vac won't move enough air to keep the air moving fast enough through 4" pipes - and you may get clogs. You can get a cheap DC from HF et. al. that will move enough air through 4' pipes to keep the shop clean until you decide to upgrade to something bigger. If you can't afford a small HF DC, then there would be little point in running ducts - you'll get much worse performance than just

However, if your goal is better health - then you can't do it on a small budget. As suggested, you need to have a read at Bill Pentz's site. You'll soon find yourself convinced you need 6" pipe and either build your own DC or plunk down $1400 for the Clear-Vue.

Bas · 12-19-2008, 10:07 PM

I went through the same predicament. Long term, I want to get a true cyclone, 6" pipes, and an overhead table saw dust pickup. In the mean time, I want to have some fun in the shop without dragging sawdust into the house.

I put some info on my web site that you may find useful. As you know, I tend to ramble...

flatheadfisher · 12-19-2008, 10:28 PM

I found the info on the website Bas made very useful (thanks, Bas!). My DC came in today on a truck longer than my driveway. I put it together and tried it out. I am quite happy with it. Tomorrow, I start building the closet to put it in.

Travis Porter · 12-19-2008, 10:40 PM

To give perspective, I have a 3 HP cyclone with all metal pipe (mainly 6" and 8").

I used plain old stove pipe available from the borg for the pipe, but for the joints I used all true dust collection fittings. Although HVAC/stove pipe fittings will work, they will work POORLY and you will lose a lot of suction. I know this from first hand experience as I used these fittings initially. I have read that the thin gauge of stove pipe will collapse with the suction of a large collector, but I have not had any issues.

If I were to do it again, I would use S&D PVC (that is unless I could afford metal spiral pipe

). The static discharge/explosion thing in my opinion is a myth for a homeshop. I have read several articles that support it. The only issue with the PVC is static. It will pop you occassionally, but so does my flex hose that connects to my machines from my piping.

My first set up was with a 2 HP Jet (DC-1200) and 6" stove pipe and stove pipe fittings to hook up to my planer and jointer. I had maybe 20 ft of total pipe, and all, it wasn't bad. It is a good way to start, and something is better than nothing.

PS- stay away from plastic blast gates. Go with the aluminum ones.

junquecol · 12-19-2008, 11:14 PM

If everything at Bill Pentz's site was true, I would have been dead twenty years ago, and my father, who lived to be 87, would have died before I was born. Some of us are less affected by dust, while others, including my wife, are very sensitive. A shop vacuum can't move enough air to keep chips moving in a 4" or larger pipe. The problem with 6" pipe is most machines only have a four inch port, which restricts the amount of air you can take in. Remember that a chain is no stronger than it's weakest link. The four inch port being the weakest link. IMHO, 6" pipe is only needed if you are running multiple machine at once. In a "one man" shop, how often do you run more than one at the time?

christopheralan · 12-20-2008, 12:13 AM

My basic set up is simple. tablesaw, Jointer, Planer, RT, MS, drillpress, bandsaw, all against one wall. I was thinking about running a trunk line of PVC, flex hose with blast gates to each. I could even make 3-4 lines that I could change around for the top 3-4 machines I use for the project. The run is about 20ish feet. Overall, I want my clean-up time faster. I will later get/make a cleaner for the air.

Do-able with a shopvac? At least until I get a real DC?

Bas · 12-20-2008, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Travis Porter

It is a good way to start, and something is better than nothing.

When it comes to dust collection, it tends to be all or nothing. Either you go cheap with 4", or expensive with 6". It's not a couple of hundred dollars more, it's a factor 4 or 5. My entire setup cost around $500. That includes the DC, filter cartridge, blast gates, pipes, trash can separator and remote. Is it great? No. There is a lot of sawdust that accumulates in the cabinet. Some chips escape the planer. I have to sweep under the jointer every once in a while. Is it sufficient? Yes, it keeps the worst mess under control. Would I prefer to have a 3HP cyclone and 6" pipes? Absolutely. Will I get that one day? You bet. Am I going to be upset I "wasted" money on a cheap system in the mean time? Absolutely not. Am I done answering my own questions? I am now!

JimmyC · 12-20-2008, 12:33 AM

I agree with Bas, if you are only running a one man shop and your runs are relatively short go with 4", pvc should be down in price since it goes up and down with oil prices. I run a 2hp DC and roll it around on machines, but am in the process of running 6" HVAC. 4" fittings are real reasonable as long as you take your time to collect pieces when they are on sale. Definitely run a Thien seperator, lots of bang for the buck.