Working on the Shop instead of in the shop

[JimmyC]

Honestly Dave,

If you do your own wiring and have access to getting 200amps into the shop, I would go with the bigger panel. Everybody will say bigger is better, I don't believe that with everything, but with power it's true. 220v machines should be kept on dedicated lines, so if you have jointer, planer, tablesaw, dust collector, and welding machine that will use up 10 slots immediately. With a shop your size, lighting (inside and out) can use up a few breakers, exterior outlets should be on separate breakers, and then add 4 or 5 110v outlets. There goes another 10 slots. So we are up to 20 slots and that's without pushing hard. Car lifts (storage area) and metal working machines could use up more slots. You can't have too many outlets or slots in your panel.

If you don't do your own wiring it's also advantageous to run the outlets before closing up the walls because it costs a lot less.

Good luck on your decision,

Jimmy

[WNC_Dave]

I unfortunately do not know a lot about electrical wiring. I can wire up the breakers and lights in the shop but I am not sure if i can upgrade the existing run from 100 amp to 200 amp? Is it as easy as changing out the breaker in the main house panel if the wiring will handle it? or is a 200 amp 2 100 amp lines? I can take a pick of the inside of my panel if that will help.

Dave

[Jim Murphy]

It's not an issue of upping the service amperage (and NO, you can't just pop a bigger breaker in unless you KNOW that the wiring will handle the load), the issue is simply a larger (physically, not amp-erally) panel with more breaker slots.

You have 100 amps coming in, you'll be hard pressed to use them all up at one time in a hobby environment. It's having the space (not the current) to allow separate breakers for the heavy hardware and splitting up the 115v receptacles into multiple circuits.

'Tween me and Scott we could wire Mars if we had somewhere to stand. And if we wait long enough, Scott will buy something with an extension arm that will reach.

[meika123]

Originally Posted by WNC_Dave

Jim
yes I am re framing with 2x6 to match what was there.

Rob
I am not sure about the walls yet. I plan on osb or mdf for the bottom to protest the insulation from impact damage, but above that i have not decided. You can come over when ever you want, help is always welcome and beer is in the fridge if you want to just sit and chat.

Why do you think I need a bigger panel. that one is not half full yet, plus i only have a 100 Amp feed going to the building from the house. Also I only have a table saw and compound miter saw. The rest is done by hand till i get some more tools. I am thinking DC will be next so i can get it installed. then planer and jointer. but that is a ways off.

All recommendations are welcome as this is my first shop.

Thanks
Dave

Don't know how much help this will be, but, I insulated my 20' x 20' shop, and covered the walls with 1/4" Luan. Didn't cost THAT much, and it gives me a wooden wall to attach things to. Although somewhat limited.
When I enlarged my shop from 12' x 20' to present, I ran a 2/0-4/0 cable underground to a new dedicated 100 amp panel in the shop. Haven't had a problem at all-so far.
HTH

Dave in NC

[scsmith42]

Dave, re which one of the two panels to use, if it were me I'd go with the 200A panel ($125.00 at the Apex store).

It's ok to leave your incoming service (breaker in the main panel and wiring) at 100A, as Jim explained it's doubtful that you'll be using more than 100A at the same time.

However, what the 200A panel offers you is more locations for 240VAC breakers, and in the event that you ever need more power all you have to do is replace your incoming feed with a larger one and swap out the breaker in your main box in the house. This is much better than having to fool around with chaging all of the wiring in the box.

In my woodshop, I have 240A breakers for the table saw, the edge sander, the shaper, the compressor, the dust collector and a water heater. That's six slots used up in the box for equipment that is found in a high percentage of woodworking shops.

I also have 240 breakers for the 30HP phase converter,a 3-phase panel, two sub panels, and 30A and 50A recepticals for welders, etc that I don't typically use in the wood shop.

There are actually 4 load centers in my wood shop - one of which is a 3 phase load center. The first one was a 20 space put in when the building was built, and I added the other three due to expansion needs. It would have been much easier if the first panel was a larger one...

You've got a great looking shop project; can't wait to see the final product.

Jim - re the Mars wiring ... <grin>

[WNC_Dave]

Jimm and Scott
Thanks for the advice. I added up all teh circuits i have and will need for additional lights and outlets that I am going to put in before closing up the walls then added a bunch for future expansion and decided on the 20 slot box. It was a little cheeper also. as I am over budget on insulating my shop with the purchase of additional lights outlets and supplies, I am trying to keep the costs down to keep my wife happy. Also I still have the current box and can always add it in for some addition circuits if needed. Unfortunetly I have to work 3rd shift tonight so no progress on the shop, but will get some tomorrow when I get the box up and more insulation installed. Will post up some pics then.

Dave The Luan is a good idea and may fall back on that but I am hopping that a source for some free slat wall will come through. If so I will be using it from 4ft up and mdf below that.


Thanks
Dave

[WNC_Dave]

Well another weekend is over and a bunch of work on the shop is done. New panel is in and looks so empty. only 4 breakers in the 20 slot panel. Sorry no pic yet. It was too cold out there. I also got up more insulationa and will be finishing it hopefully this week. I now need to decide on 2 more shop lights to go over the table saw location and assembly table. The decision is either permanent mount or hanging. I have 10 ft open ceilings. Any recomendations from those with shop similar to this?

I am trying to learn sketchup and will hopefully load up a layout i am thinking about later today or tomorrow for some critique.

Thanks for the help
Dave

[JimmyC]

Dave,
It sounds good so far, I don't know how you worked without heat this weekend, but you did. Keep us updated and good luck.

Jimmy

ps. I know what you are saying about a budget and the wife

[WNC_Dave]

Jom
I used a 35,000 BTU propane ready heater and many layers. When I started it was 17 putside. after about 30 monites the shop was 40, so the insulation that is up is already helping. My buddy that was helping me was cold so he stood infront of the heater most of the time.

Dave

[mkepke]

While there's no reason other than money and space NOT to go with a humongous panel, there's also no requirement to do so either.

240V tools do NOT need to be on dedicated circuits in a hobby shop environment. The panel should be sized based on expected usage, e.g. one individual working in the shop.

While the DC and air compressor can be expected to run autonomously, one would not expect a hobbyest (or any single person shop) to simultaneously operate a tablesaw, shaper, jointer, planer, lathe, etc. All these single-user tools can share one circuit because they are not run simultaneously. This saves money and time.

I have (arguably) 9 240V tools and they are supported by 4 240 circuits....

All that said, I don't know if the OP (Dave) is a hobbyest. I do know that anyone with a 30HP phase converter isn't.

-Mark

[jeff...]

200 AMP Panel

These guys they are trying to save you some major headache down the road