Where's the dust????? (UPDATE)

[Jon]

There heave been some good points in this thread. Please keep the discussion on a friendly note so this discussion can keep going.

[jeff...]

Originally Posted by Phil Thien

Cheese envy.

I grew up a FIP

[Partman]

Ok boys, I thank both Allen and Phil for your work on this site
But lets don’t forget people like me that up till 3 years ago did not have any kind of dust collection. All I did was open the doors and take leaf blower and blow dust out, and it was a gas blower so I was getting some of the exhaust. So I guess any one who can not have the best equipment needs to quit woodwork. Fine wood dust may not be good for you, but I have hear that asbestos is not good for you either but I did breathe a lot of it win I was a auto tech.

Danny

[Phil Thien]

Originally Posted by jtodd71

There heave been some good points in this thread. Please keep the discussion on a friendly note so this discussion can keep going.

That was my civil version.

[ptt49er]

Originally Posted by Phil Thien

That was my civil version.

I don't think Jon meant that it hadn't been civil so far, I think he was trying to keep it from escalating. I know I am finding a lot of interesting points in this and I'd like to see it continued.

Thank you for joining us here at North Carolina Woodworker! It's always nice to hear other ideas.

[Phil Thien]

Originally Posted by ptt49er

I don't think Jon meant that it hadn't been civil so far, I think he was trying to keep it from escalating.

Don't worry, I'm from Wisconsin, not Illinois!

[jeff...]

Originally Posted by Phil Thien

Don't worry, I'm from Wisconsin, not Illinois!

Yep most defiantly from Wisconsin

[JackLeg]

Originally Posted by Partman

Ok boys, I thank both Allen and Phil for your work on this site
But lets don’t forget people like me that up till 3 years ago did not have any kind of dust collection. All I did was open the doors and take leaf blower and blow dust out, and it was a gas blower so I was getting some of the exhaust. So I guess any one who can not have the best equipment needs to quit woodwork. Fine wood dust may not be good for you, but I have hear that asbestos is not good for you either but I did breathe a lot of it win I was a auto tech.

Danny

Amen, Danny. I'm still working on getting my partner to put in ANY kind of DCS, if nothing more than a shop vac! Not having much luck. We just "shovel out the shop" about once every 2 weeks and keep snorkling up the dust!! We DO have the planer run outside, but that's all.

[junquecol]

First, let me say some here can be a little zealous on the issue of DC. However, I respect their right to be wrong. I have one of those dreaded Wood Magazine Cyclones in my shop. It has a Delta 10", 1.0 HP blower ( originally made by Cincinnatti Fan) on top. I have seven of the 6" X 65" felted polyester socks from Onedia on the plenium. According to American Filter Fabrics, and Onedia, this gives me the required filter area for my blower. When the unit shuts down, socks colaspe and fines slake off and fall to floor of plentium. This is the way they are supposed to. I can keep up with my 15" planer with no problems, using this set up. Remember that the PC 690 router is obsolete technology, but it is still the # 1 selling router. Telling me that I must have a Bill Pentz designed cyclone is like telling me I must have a Martin slider, or I can't build cabinets. (I earn a large percentage of my income building cabinets using my Delta Contractor's saw.) Phil , thank you for sharing you design with all. It helps many to improve their dust collection system. A system that is a PITA to use won't be used. Yours is simple and seems to work. Thanks, Bruce

[Phil Thien]

Originally Posted by junquecol

I have one of those dreaded Wood Magazine Cyclones in my shop.

The Wood Magazine and other cyclones have gotten a bad rap. They work fine. There seems to be a perception that BP/CV cyclones separate all the dust and nothing reaches the filters. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, here is a quote from Steve Knight (Knight Toolsworks) about his CV setup [I've edited it for capitalization and punctuation to make it a little easier to read]:

I get a lot of super fine dust in my filters with the ClearView. When I went from 2hp to 5 and the bigger impeller I saw far more fine dust in the filters. But I make more super fine dust then most since I work so much with tropicals like padouk and ipe.

The dust would come right through the cartridge filters every time I started the cyclone up. I finally went to a bunch of bags from American fabric filters. I almost tripled the recommended surface. I have 5 bags 8' tall and 30" around.

It took months before they caught almost all of the fine dust. I went that way over say 4 or so cartridges. They are such a pain to clean that I went with bags.

[SteveColes]

I don't have the time anymore to read all the threads, so I didn't see this until one of the moderators mentioned that he had closed the thread.

This is and was a great thread and I would like to keep it open becuase there is a lot of great info that was presented. While this debate was civil by the standards of some other websites, it stepped over our lines several times. I am going to reread the thread again. If I can, I will either edit or delete the posts that either caused the nasty drift and any that reference to them or are ones that are direct responses. If I can do this successfully, then I will re-open the thread.

Phil, I want to thank you for coming on the site and really hope you will stay. You have a lot of good information and will be a great addition to our community even if you are "cheese head".Your system has a lot followers and I for one am very interested it, if I ever get into the shop again.

Alan, I understand where you are coming from. BP's system has many followers and some good engineering behind it.

But to both of you, I say "chill". There are many ways to skin a cat and not everyone's goals are the same.

[Glennbear]

Thanks for reopening the thread Steve, I too found the info presented useful since I am just starting on dust collection piping etc. I was going to be super safe and make gloveboxes surrounding each of my machines but the cost of plexiglass for enclosures would be more than I paid for my house Shortly I will be posting pictures of my shop built DUSTINATOR 1000 which some may find interesting or at least comical

[Travis Porter]

Don't forget the noise. IMO, my cyclone is two to three times louder than the Jet DC-1200 I used to have.

[Bigdog72]

My shop is 16x24 and I have a 2HP DC with canister, the Thein baffle seperator, a JDS air filter and, soon, a shop built squirrel fan air cleaner. I have a 24" fan moving air and a box fan with a filter exhausting air when I can open the doors. I even wore a respirator for a short time yesterday. I think I have all avenues covered. I certainly hope so!!

[skysharks]

Wow can you guys believe this????
Talk about a discussion. But please keep it nice, like Steve said there is a lot of good info being presented here.
All I did was to make a post on a niffy dust separator that I thought was cool and fairly easy to make.
Which system is better I don't know cause I have absolutely no experience with a Cyclone.
I will say this that the separator that I built is still depositing fines/Dust into my filter.
I really found this out when I cleaned up the Bandsaw, after re sawing (2) 2" x 10" x 8'. I then had to sand them smooth with 80 grit and then 120 grit. So the sanding dust on the shop table also got collected.

By comparison the separator did have over 90% of the pickup in it. There was enough that made it to the shop vac and filter that when taken out and tapped on the side that was easily seen to be coating the filter.
There was also a very small smear about the size of a half dollar bill of fine dust at the bottom of the shop vac.

Which leaves one to think "hey this filter will be reduced in efficiency shortly" Maybe not as soon as without it but it still will.

I don't know maybe I'm asking to much of a DC unit. or being to picky.

It is allot better than what I started out with that is for sure.
I have a tendency that when I start something I have expectations/perceptions of it. I strive to achieve what "I think" it should look like/do/perform etc.
Right now I am not sure of what I should expect or can get with out going way overboard. Some would look at what I have done and say that I already have.