New barn/shop questions

brenthenze · 05-08-2008, 08:29 PM

Seeing Flyrod's impressive new building has me itching all the more to get to work on mine this summer! I spent this week figuring out the financing and talking with the building inspector, environmental health folks, and zoning guy. And I've finally settled on a source for barn plans.

But I'm still waffling about a couple of issues, and I'm hoping the more experienced of y'all will have some advice.

Foundation: Slab vs. perimeter foundation? I'm still not sure what to do about a foundation: perimeter (with crawlspace and framed floor) or a full slab. Part of my concern is cost (of course), though frankly I don't even know which will cost more (I assume the slab). But I also wonder about comfort and dimension. Does anyone with a concrete floor wish they had something softer to stand on? Aesthetically, I'd rather have a wood floor (plywood over joists, probably), and maybe that's the cheaper option too. But I guess that also requires the whole building to be a couple feet taller (to accommodate the crawlspace, the perimeter foundation would come a couple feet above grade, which means that a 9' wall would be about 11' above grade, right?) In contrast, a slab is just a few inches above grade. Any problems that I should be worried about there? (Flyrod's building looks like it sits up nice and high on a level perch; my site slopes about 2 or 3 feet across the 20' width of the building, which means that one side of a slab would have to be built up quite a bit, I guess.)

Headroom: Any thoughts about 8', 9', or 10' headroom on the first floor? I don't want the building to tower over the landscape, and I'm also anxious about working too high up (and about the expense of extra scaffolding). But I also want to be sure I have enough headroom for a good woodshop. How high is sufficient? (And am I failing to consider any construction-related problems with going higher than 8'?)

Siding: Though I'd love to use something like Hardi-plank (so I never have to paint the building), I don't think my budget is going to allow it. I'm thinking of board-and-batten siding instead, particularly if I can find someone to sell me rough cut lumber. (From what I've read on WoodWeb, even freshly cut green planks are fine for board-and-batten siding, since the bats cover the gaps that result from shrinkage.) The other advantage of B&B is that you don't need sheathing--it just gets nailed onto nailers that are mounted to the studs.

Anyone have this sort of siding on their building? I wonder if there are any problems insulating a building sided this way, since there might be gaps where water can come through (since there's no sheathing). I'm considering clapboards or shiplap instead, but concerned about cost. Also installation: seems like installing B&B would be a lot easier--it could be done with just a ladder, whereas horizontal siding might require scaffolding.

Looking forward to any advice anyone is willing to offer!

Glennbear · 05-08-2008, 09:52 PM

My shop was recently built and it is sided with L-P Smartside, 4x8 sheets that look like T-111 but go directly on studs. This is an engineered product with a long warranty and I am pleased with it. Info is available at Home Depot. I would suggest a ceiling height greater than 8 feet, my shop is 8 feet tall but it has led to problems. Just this week I was wrestling with the electric overhead door opener because of clearence issues.

Gotcha6 · 05-08-2008, 10:00 PM

Slabs are generally cheaper. Wood floors must be 18" clear in the crawl or use treated timbers throughout.
9' ceiling is probably sufficient but I'd go 10' if you aren't gonna do a 2nd floor. Remember, you'll need stairs to get up there & that extra height makes 'em longer.
B & B is ok but put some 15# felt over the studs before applying & purlin the studs horizontally @ 16" o.c. minimum. Also, use diagonal let in bracing if you aren't going to sheat the outside with OSB or PW. Don't nail the battens through the boards so the boards can float. Put blocks at the bottom of the boards to fill in the gap behind the battens. Bugs love these cracks. Check your grain to avoid too much cupping the wrong way on the boards.
Good luck!

Travis Porter · 05-08-2008, 10:50 PM

I would think a slab would be cheaper, but personally, I would love to have wooden floors. Easier to make changes, and easier on the feet. If you do go with a slab, make sure any walkways coming up to the building are lower than the slab and sloped away for water drainage/runoff.

Ceiling height I would want 10 feet. That is what I have now, and I can say I have no regrets whatsoever.

I have no experience with green lumber for board and batten, but my father did use green 2 by lumber for framing sheds and has had zero issues with it after 10 years. If you can do hardiplank, I would as it is nice. True, the hardiplank holds paint well, but you still have trim to deal with.

Bas · 05-08-2008, 11:05 PM

If you go with a crawlspace, you could run your DC piping under the floor. That would be a nice option. As for comfort, concrete is very hard on your feet, difficult to keep clean etc. You can put something over it of course, but why do that if you can go with wood from the start?

jeff... · 05-08-2008, 11:39 PM

If it were a true barn I would go with a dirt floor but it sounds like it'll be a wood shop - so just remember weight - it's a factor - machines are heavy and awkward to move specifically if you decide to go with old iron. You won't be able to drive a forklift over a wood joist floor. I have 9' ceilings in my shop - like the height but those pesky lights get in the way sometimes 10' would be better... think about windows I have... huge windows in my shop 3 of them they take up wall space and mine are way to low and to big which makes matters worse. Make sure you plan for ample power and if your Alan a bathroom and office...

Overall I'm very pleased with my shop when I do it over again - I'll changes somethings to make it a little better but it suites me just fine if I can every keep it clean

JackLeg · 05-09-2008, 07:34 AM

My shop has 10" ceiling and concrete floor. If you go concrete, just put on a sealer after it's cured. Makes sweeping and cleanup much easier.

You won't regret the extra ceiling height. Hardiplank is almost maintenance free once it's on and painted. Also has a great fire rating.

Put in plenty of electrical capacity and about 3 times the outlets you think you'll need.
A 200 amp panel should serve you well.

Good luck and congratulations on the new shop!

Douglas Robinson · 05-09-2008, 09:27 AM

If you can swing it go with the wood floor! You will not regret it. It is easy on the feet and dropped tools. It also adds WARNTH to the shop.

Doug

Woodman2k · 05-09-2008, 06:56 PM

Brent,
You did not say what the final dim. of the shop will be but you could dig in to the slope from the back side ,pour stepped footings,put up a block wall and block piers for down the middle and build it out of alternating sheets of 3/4 and 5/8 plywood with construction adhesive between the layersfor the floor.You could always pour a partial concrete slab up near the overhead door so if you get some big iron you can locate it there and also put your lumber rack there.By digging into the existing slope you creat a crawlspace and avoid having to use treated lumber.Go with engineered I-joists for the floor.Nice and flat and strong.I'm doing the same this summer.I've been on Concrete floors for 35+ years and have had enough.

JackLeg · 05-09-2008, 09:41 PM

Today I was drilling holes in some 8' landscape timbers, (24 of 'em) and it reminded me how glad I am for the 10' ceilings in my shop. When you need to "end over end" some lumber, 8' can be a little tight!

My $.02 worth again.

scsmith42 · 05-09-2008, 09:57 PM

As usual, lots of good advice. My 2 cents...

Go 10' ceilings. This will allow you to easily swing an 8' board around under the lights, etc.

Slab versus wood? It's your personal preferance. I like the durability and strength of concrete.

B&B siding? I have several farm buildings with it, and it's my preferred siding. I prefer KD, because that sterilizes the critters inside it. When you nail it up, place it bark side out. If you nail it up green, only nail one side of the board (and place the nail where the batten will cover it). Treat it with Timbor if possible (and if you can't get KD or cypress). Some of Ivey's cypress would make a great B&B siding, and prevent the critter issue.

Use ring or spiral shank nails. My preferred batten width is 3" x 3/4", and my preferred board width is 7"+ and 1" thick. I've use both rough sawn as well as planed boards, the planed ones can have a nice knotty pine look when stained!

Take your time applying the housewrap beind the B&B - it can be quite drafty.

Scott

brenthenze · 05-10-2008, 08:47 AM

Wow, you folks are great! All of the above is very helpful. I'm definitely going to go with the 10' ceilings. As for the floor, I have enough back problems already that I think I'd like to go with wood and just overbuild it (either with the I-joists if they're not outrageously expensive or with extra bracing).

The main part of the building is unlikely to have ultra-heavy load. It'll have heavy equipment (if I have any cash left over after this adventure!), but at this point the heaviest thing I have in here is an 8" jointer (less than 1,000#). The barn/shop I grew up in had 2" plank floors (and then later 3/4" plywood over joists), and I admit that part of my preference for wood floors is nostalgia for my dad's shop. The really heavy things--truck, mowers, car--will go in a shed on the side of the barn (maybe with a poured slab or maybe just gravel).

Someone asked about the dimensions: it'll be 24x30 (main building), with a full loft and a gambrel-style roof that'll provide good headroom across about 14' of the width (the other 10' or so will be usable for storage, though not to stand up in). I'm figuring on using the upstairs for wood storage. (The second-floor deck has to be made from I-joists to allow for an open span downstairs, so that should be sufficient strength for lumber racks upstairs too). I'm getting the plans from http://Barnplans.com. Here's a picture that's pretty close to what I'm looking at:

http://barnplans.com/gallery/riemer.html

I learned (yesterday) that these plans are actually only rated for 80mph wind, and NC code requires rating for 110mph wind. So I need to figure out what to do to modify the plans so that they'll pass code. I'm hoping it's just a simple matter of more bracing or ties or something. We'll see what the building inspector recommends.

Siding: a few folks recommended hardiboard. Price-wise, does anyone know how hardiboard compares to B&B or wood plank? I wasn't able to find good information online about pricing hardiboard, and although I'll eventually contact a dealer, I'd like to have some information in hand before that! Also, how about installation--any special tools or techniques, or does it go up just like wood?

Enjoy the picnic, everyone! (I hope to go next year!)

Brent

pcooper · 05-10-2008, 10:37 AM

When I built my shop a couple of years ago, I did a slab floor, and I wish I'd done the plywood floor now. When I was estimating costs, the floors weren't significantly different in price using pressure treated, or using more runs of block and regular lumber. There may have been a whole $200 difference between any one method. The advantage to wood floors is ability to change things underneath such as plumbing or dust collection. I also did 10' ceilings, and I don't regret that at all. I don't have to worry about missing the lights or the other things up there when I move stuff around that is long or large. Also go with good insulation, you won't regret that as my shop is very easy to cool and heat.

4yanks · 05-10-2008, 10:59 AM

I have a slab floor that I put a vapor barrier, 2x4 sleepers, with foam board insulation between then covered in 3/4" plywood. I like the combination.

JimmyC · 05-10-2008, 11:00 AM

One thing that I would recommend, if possible and definitely or a concrete floor, is to have a radiant heating system installed . Heating it is basically a hot water heater and a recirc system. The concrete retains the heat and it can be shut off after a while keeping the area comfortable. There is less of a worry of heat loss with this system and no moisture is put into the shop to cause excess rusting.

Just one more thing to think of.

Jimmy