My dust collection, need suggestions

Jon · 11-02-2007, 11:28 AM

I bought the delta dust collector at the klingspor show and Last night I ran the 4 inch S&D pipe. I for now used the 6 foot pipe from the collector to the ceiling but I feel like I could do something better. I am looking to you guys for suggestions. The DC is in a closet and I plan on getting the Wynn filter for it next week. Here are some pics.

Also I am going to run one to the router table and one to the Chop saw.

McRabbet · 11-02-2007, 12:23 PM

Jon,

Although your first picture is a little dark, I'd remove the "Y Adapter" from the DC inlet and run the same diameter pipe straight up to a 90 degree sweep elbow to your ceiling horizontal run. The ceiling run all the way to the wall adds at least 10 feet to the overall run -- can you drop on the right side of your saw and come in the other way (you are losing air flow and static pressure due to the long runs of pipe).

I'd also add a blast gate at the wye before the elbow behind the tablesaw. It looks like the DC is dedicated to the saw for now, but you'll need the blast gate if you add on other outlets. If you want to make some, there are some links to shop-made blast gates in our Link Library and some pictures in the Dust Collection Album in my Photo Gallery. Hope this helps.

PS -- I agree that you should get the Wynn filter conversion -- right now, the DC is more a dust pump than a dust collector!

Jon · 11-02-2007, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by McRabbet

Jon,

Although your first picture is a little dark, I'd remove the "Y Adapter" from the DC inlet and run the same diameter pipe straight up to a 90 degree sweep elbow to your ceiling horizontal run. The ceiling run all the way to the wall adds at least 10 feet to the overall run -- can you drop on the right side of your saw and come in the other way (you are losing air flow and static pressure due to the long runs of pipe).

I'd also add a blast gate at the wye before the elbow behind the tablesaw. It looks like the DC is dedicated to the saw for now, but you'll need the blast gate if you add on other outlets. If you want to make some, there are some links to shop-made blast gates in our Link Library and some pictures in the Dust Collection Album in my Photo Gallery. Hope this helps.

PS -- I agree that you should get the Wynn filter conversion -- right now, the DC is more a dust pump than a dust collector!

I ran it the way I did because I walk between the other side and the router table is on that side. I knew I would lose a little by running that far but its safer for me. I do plan on the gates at the wye and one at the 90 where it goes up the wall. I am going to go today and see about getting a pipe to get rid of the flex pipe. Its 5 inch at the opening and reduces to 4 should I try and do 5 inch up to the ceiling?

McRabbet · 11-02-2007, 12:46 PM

Five inch is preferable, but it is not available in PVC. Even if you use a metal reducer to the 4", try to use 5" metal pipe for the riser to reduce frictional losses. BTW, the "pipe on the floor" thing is why I'm happy to have a high crawl space under my shop -- most of my ductwork is below the floor...

Jon · 11-02-2007, 12:53 PM

Yea When I do a building I am going to do a high crawl space So I can do Wiring and Dust collection under the floor. But for now this is what I have.

Alan in Little Washington · 11-02-2007, 01:01 PM

I agree with all of what Rob says. First, get rid of that intake Y and the flex attached to it. I don't know if you will find 5" S&D anywhere if it is even made, but if there is any chance of opening up the inlet to 6", I'd go that route. I don't know what model and CFM your DC is but would think you would be fine going with 6" PVC S&D on your mains- especially if you ever decide someday (usually it is not "if" but "when") to upgrade the blower or get/build a cyclone. The conventional wisdom is to stay as big as possible as long as possible and only reduce when you absolutely must due to a machine with a small DC port.

Also, I hope you aren't gluing the pipe together, though I think I see purple joint cleaner!!!!!!! Friction fit is fine and preferred because you'll want to change your setup someday sooner (most likely) or later- trust me!!!!!! If you are concerned about leaks, just put a very small bead of silicone on the joint after the fittings are together. Since the joint is under suction it will pull the silicone tight and seals well, and if you want to take it apart, you can rub the cured silicone off of the joint and pipe with just a finger so you can reuse the pipe and fittings. Gotta go, be back later with other suggestions.

Jon · 11-02-2007, 01:12 PM

I didnt glue any of it. I salvaged all of this pipe from an old warehouse. I still have probably 50 pieces of pipe some of it 6 feet some 10 feet. Some is glued but not from me. I was wondering what the purple was. the 90 sweeps are glued but the rest is slip joint.

Inflatable Screen Door · 11-02-2007, 03:23 PM

How does the air get out of the closet and return to the shop?

The purple stuff is from the primer used before you glue up the PVC.

Bas · 11-02-2007, 03:26 PM

Jon, I have a small dust collector like yours, and recently ran duct work. I got tired of having to lug the DC back and forth and move the hose all the time.

For real dust collection, 6" pipe is the way to go, but it's not as easy to find, the fittings are more expensive, and I'd be concerned about the velocity dropping too much in the large diameter pipe. Catching the fine dust is important, but the chips have to move too. A cyclone with a big 5hp is the the answer of course, but that costs a little more.

I put together some photo's of my DC setup. Maybe this will help with some of your questions.

Bas.

Alan in Little Washington · 11-02-2007, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by jtodd71

Yea When I do a building I am going to do a high crawl space So I can do Wiring and Dust collection under the floor. But for now this is what I have.

My shop is above my garage so I have an 8' "crawl" space

That is the way to go for noise reduction and keeping the ductwork out of the way. I even have my DC/cyclone in the garage. I made all my own blast gates with male (section of pipe) and female (half of a fitting) sides, so they can mount at the DC port or at the machine- and everything can be easily reconfigured. Here is the tablesaw connection that comes out of the floor. I made trap doors for the two in-floor connections in case I need to roll equipment around. So I don't need to bend over, I will be adding cables to actuate the blast gates. I have enough suction that I leave the tablesaw blast gate open all the time.

(I have power in the floor for the tablesaw and jointer also) I saved the bell ends of the pipe to make quick connects. The 6" flex can be persuaded to fit inside a bell end- I used a little dishwashing detergent.

Most of my DC ports are on a knee wall. So I wouldn't have too many floor penetrations, I made one, then ran a length of duct at shop level behind the knee wall. This shot was taken before I installed drywall.

Here is a DC port specifically located to support my drum sander. I use almost no 90 elbows. Most turns are achieved using a 45 wye or a wye and a 45 elbow. This is the one exception where I used two 45's to achieve a 90 elbow. If I had access to a long sweep 90, I would have used it here.

The garage piping, showing one of the penetrations to the shop. The blower and cyclone are located in a small room through the wall at the right of the picture.

The remainder of the piping showing how the main branches into two mains. The pipe duct closest to the doors feeds the ducts behind the knee walls. The run that angles away from the door draws from the tablesaw, jointer, and mitersaw which is on the wall behind the camera.

McRabbet · 11-02-2007, 04:34 PM

Nice pictures Alan (and Bas, too!). Alan, I plan to replace all of my existing 4" duct with 6" PVC and my runs will be below the floor, too. Some questions come to mind with your installation. 1) What is your recommended source of 6" flex? Looks like the 25 mil PVC from Wynn, but thought I'd ask. 2) What terminates each riser just below the floor? If I understand your quick connects (short bell ends at each end of flex), I suspect you end each with a coupling so the flex segment just plugs into the coupling below the floor and into the female side of your blast gate. Am I correct? 3) Did you make 6" connectors to replace the stock 4" ports on your jointer and table saw?

My blast gates are from ClearVue and are made to accept a straight piece of S&D pipe into either side (they are 6-1/4" ID). I'm getting closer -- my cyclone gets delivered tomorrow!

One other observation is that like me, you don't bother with any "grounding", since it really is not necessary except to dissipate some static.

Bas · 11-02-2007, 06:14 PM

Alan, that is one slick DC setup. Those trapdoors look awesome, it's scary how pristine your workshop looks. No cables, pipes or hoses to trip over, and no dust anywhere.

Hope you never plan to finish the garage ceiling. Messing with that setup would be sacrilege.

Bas.

junquecol · 11-02-2007, 11:13 PM

The Woodstock International blast gates fit perfectly into "Flying W" brand of S&D pipe, but are loose in the "Silverline" brand. Some of the Lowes still stock "Flying W" brand. I have a run of about thirty feet of 4" S&D, along with two ten foot sections of flex that I run to my Delta 15" planer. Have absolutely no problems with pickup. I'm running a 10" Cinncinatti Fan brand blower on top of my homemade cyclone.

Alan in Little Washington · 11-03-2007, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by McRabbet

Nice pictures Alan (and Bas, too!). Alan, I plan to replace all of my existing 4" duct with 6" PVC and my runs will be below the floor, too. Some questions come to mind with your installation. 1) What is your recommended source of 6" flex? Looks like the 25 mil PVC from Wynn, but thought I'd ask.

I got some from a WW show, and some from Oneida I think . . . . too long ago, too short of memory

2) What terminates each riser just below the floor? If I understand your quick connects (short bell ends at each end of flex), I suspect you end each with a coupling so the flex segment just plugs into the coupling below the floor and into the female side of your blast gate. Am I correct?

The flex stays permanently inserted in the short bell end cutoffs which act as a quick disconnect. The short pipe part of bell end cutoff plugs into a coupling (in some cases a half coupling) which could be in the floor, on a machine, or on a blast gate.

3) Did you make 6" connectors to replace the stock 4" ports on your jointer and table saw?

Yup, out of MDF and half a coupling painted gray.

My blast gates are from ClearVue and are made to accept a straight piece of S&D pipe into either side (they are 6-1/4" ID). I'm getting closer -- my cyclone gets delivered tomorrow!

Sweet! They SUCK!!!! That thing will be a danger to loose jewelry, tools, little children, rodents, and small pets!

One other observation is that like me, you don't bother with any "grounding", since it really is not necessary except to dissipate some static.[/quote]

Right you are. No problem what so ever. Here is the link to Dr. Rod Cole's article debunking the static fire/explosion myth.

Final note- after thinking a VERY LONG TIME about this, I am about to do the DC hookup to my bandsaw. I haven't seen one I like yet. My thoughts are to make a "soft shroud" out of vinyl or similar material that will attach to the perimeter of the bandsaw table the lower frame, and wheel housing via (refrigerator) strip magnets stitched into the hem of the shroud. It will connect to a 6" port/hose. This should capture most, if not all, below the table dust and should be easy to remove to adjust or change blades. I'll post pics when it is done.

Alan in Little Washington · 11-03-2007, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by junquecol

The Woodstock International blast gates fit perfectly into "Flying W" brand of S&D pipe, but are loose in the "Silverline" brand. Some of the Lowes still stock "Flying W" brand. I have a run of about thirty feet of 4" S&D, along with two ten foot sections of flex that I run to my Delta 15" planer. Have absolutely no problems with pickup. I'm running a 10" Cinncinatti Fan brand blower on top of my homemade cyclone.

Remember S&D comes in different weights- ASTM 2729 (also called solid perf) and SDR or ASTM 3035. Both have the same OD and share fittings, but have different wall thicknesses and therefore different IDs.

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