White Oak Gluability ?

[JimmyC]

Hello All !

I came into some 8/4 White Oak cheaply ( thanks Alan), and decided that it might finally be time for me to make a nice workbench. I am thinking about cutting the WO into 3" width's so that the top can be 3" thick. I was thinking about using Elmers Yellow Carpenter Glue, because of open time, for glue up.

Any suggestions or opinions would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Jimmy

[Bas]

Jimmy - I'm completely unqualified when it comes to comparing glues or the properties of white oak, but I'm curious as to why you're concerned about open time. Did you plan to glue it all up at once? I did my workbench in stages, jointing and planing each "slablet" along the way. This gives you much more time to put the clamps in the right place, position the cauls etc. Biggest glueup was 4 boards at a time. Spreading glue on 8 faces and putting the clamps on takes less than 10 minutes.

BTW, I used Titebond II, but Elmer's should work just as well. I haven't seen any difference between the two, except that TB is more expensive.

[JimmyC]

Bas,
I'd like to glue up 12"x96" sections at once, I'm hoping that I can have all of the pcs. the same length but I may have to use some shorter mixed in.
I'm sure that I'll probably have enough open time, but I want to be sure (I've spent enough time re-doing things in my life) that I have enough time. Also, I read some where that White Oak does not glue real well).

Thanks for the input,

Jimmy

[mjmlbp]

Titebond Extend will give you a longer open time.

-Frank

[WoodWrangler]

You may also want to consider the Plastic Resin glue. Works great, very strong, and affordable.

It's powder form and you just mix it with water. Has a longer open time.

http://www.dap.com/media/product_pho...sticResin.aspx

[jeff...]

Jimmy I was wondering if you could join them with lengths of threaded rod and a cap on each side to cover the bolt holes?

[Bas]

Ah, you're one of those efficient woodworkers! In that case your question makes perfect sense. I hate having to hurry during a glue-up as well.

Titebond extend or a plastic resin glue (as Frank & Jeremy suggested) is probably a good idea. I have on occasion thinned regular Titebond with water (< 10%) for extra open time. It's not much, but it's noticeable in time. Doesn't seem to be a difference in strength.

[DaveO]

I've not known WO to have any gluing issues. It has always glued up very well for me. I would second the Plastic Resin glue for the longer open time and a more rigid glue bond. It will help prevent the possibility of "glue-line-creep", which could be very annoying on a nice flat work bench surface.
Dave

[JimmyC]

Hey All,

Thanks for all of the info, what is plastic resin glue( brand name) and where would I purchase it ?

Dave, thanks for answering about the WO specifically, I don't remember where I heard it.

Jeff, I thought about threaded rod, but I'm trying to stay away from it.

Once again, Thank you all.

Jimmy

[Alan in Little Washington]

It may be me, but frankly I didn't notice much difference in the open time for the extended open-time Titebond Extend vs regular Titebond II or III. I second the recommendation of plastic resin glue.

In addition to the glue application/set-up difficulties of a large glue-up the other reason to break it down into reasonable sub-assemblies is weight and the ability to handle the sub-assembly. You will need/want to face joint any sub assemblies before you glue them up. Make the sub-assemblies too heavy and it will be a bear to heft them around and run them on the jointer.

[DaveO]

Originally Posted by WoodWrangler

You may also want to consider the Plastic Resin glue. Works great, very strong, and affordable.

It's powder form and you just mix it with water. Has a longer open time.

http://www.dap.com/media/product_pho...sticResin.aspx

Originally Posted by twodognc

Hey All,
what is plastic resin glue( brand name) and where would I purchase it ?

You should be able to get it at Woodcraft or Klingspors. Possibly even the Lowes down the road
Dave

[Bas]

Originally Posted by Alan in Little Washington

In addition to the glue application/set-up difficulties of a large glue-up the other reason to break it down into reasonable sub-assemblies is weight and the ability to handle the sub-assembly. You will need/want to face joint any sub assemblies before you glue them up. Make the sub-assemblies too heavy and it will be a bear to heft them around and run them on the jointer.

This coming from the man who has a 96" jointer and 192" planer...equipment so heavy you need a bridge laying tank to move it

But you're absolutely right of course. I built a pretty small bench, but hoisting 6'x6"x3" of SYP onto the jointer wasn't trivial. Trying to put 6'x12"x3" through the planer took 20 minutes of planning for 20 seconds of planing. And the 24" slab made a nice hole in my floor when it slid off the sawhorses . Oak should be even more fun

(lemme know if you need any help wrestling....)

[Gofor]

I used Titebond II on my white oak bench top. For glue up, I clamped the first board on edge on top of the already assembled base, and laid them up vertically. The advantages of vertical were:
1. Glue did not run off the edges
2. Easy to "set boards and the weight helps compress joint
3. Easier to clamp as I laid up each board (glued and clamp first one. Waited 15 minutes and then did next, etc)
4. Easy to wipe off excess squeeze out from both sides
5. Easy to see both "top" and "bottom" for final alignment.

I did spline all mine, which helped, but if the first board is vertical (i.e. top level in both directions) and edges square there is little problem with it tipping if clamped good on the base.

After it is all assembled and dry, be prepared for the full weight when you lay it flat. May want to ask for help. Mine was only 5' x 2' x 2" thick, so only weighed in about 70 lbs before adding the skirts. If yours is 8' long and 3" thick, it may weigh in around 150+lb. When you start adding the vises is when it really gets heavy!!

JMTCW

Go

[JimmyC]

Thank you all,

So far I've decided that I'm going to try and make my top with a center tool trough.So each glued up section should be around 12"x3"x96", which I should be able to handle(hopefully), but when I glue it up all together, with vices on, I know I will need help as it will probably weigh in excess of 250 lbs.. I hadn't thought about splines, but they might help in alignment(thanks Mark). I will deal with it as it moves along.

Once again, thank you everybody for your input.

Jimmy

[Howard Acheson]

I use Elmers Carpenter's Adhesive as my standard PVA adhesive. I like it better than Titebond. But, there is no difference in open time between Elmers and Titebond. They are both very similar PVA adhesives.

If you want a longer open time, use Titebond Extend. Or use a white PVA. The white PVA has about double the open time of Yellow PVA.

Finally, do not use threaded rod. The last thing you want to do is restrict the natural expansion/contraction of your benchtop. If you tighten the nuts when at the time of maximum shrinkage, the nuts will be drawn into the wood when the top later expands. When the top then shrinks, the rods will be loose. Threaded rod in just like a cross grain piece that is glued on. YOu wouldn't do that so you shouldn't use threaded rod.