What a wast of good White Oak!!!!!!!!

[Alan in Little Washington]

My wood guy is not too good with the board foot concept, so yesterday I helped him tally the board feet and price for a load of the prettiest, clearest 8/4 White Oak I've seen lately. Some of this stuff was 20+" wide and all 20+ feet long!!! Almost zero knots and checks!!! This load came out to a little under 700 bft. - all from one tree (and there is more). And guess what it is going to be used for?? . . . . . . construction truck/trailer flooring!!!!!! What a waste of primo White Oak!!! Of course, my wood guy has to make money anywhere he can get it, out here in rural E. NC.

[michaelgarner]

Yup that sucks, but thats standard for truck flooring. Truckers know that it holds up for years. Back on the farm we would use ash and oak for our truck beds. When it was time to replace the flooring my dad would salvage some of the wood and make something for my mom out of it. Of course it would make some great country/rustic furniture preserving all of the wear on the face of the wood.

[jeff...]

The way your explaining the lumber it's sounding like the logs should have went to the veneer mill, but I've done the same thing. Problem is very few people are interested in paying the price for primo lumber, so it goes to someone who will buy it. I had two grade 1 black walnut logs, I paid a pretty penny for both of them. Cut them into 8/4 and no one was interested in the lumber. I sat on the lumber for almost 6 month before I had to let it go for just a little more than I paid for the logs. I lost my shirt on that one and won't do that again.

Quite a few other times on the sawing side of the house, I've also had to bite my lip. I've whipping out clear barn wood, yep barn wood. Top grade logs cost more than lower grade logs. Trailer decking can come out of lower grade logs and furniture grade out of the higher grade logs. Higher grade logs demand higher lumber prices and if someone wants to pay me the same per board foot for high grade lumber, to build a fence, a horse stall or a piece of furniture, it really doesn't matter much to me. I have to recover my investment irregardless, that is if I want to keep sawing... Bottom line it seems like just about everyone one wants high grade lumber for next to nothing. Problem with that is it costs real dollars to make lumber. If a saw mill operator can't recover his costs and make a profit to keep things running, he won't be making lumber very long.

I'm confused, why you wouldn't just offer him what it's worth? Surely you have that fair priced figure in your head, you know the value of the lumber, don't you? By making an honest offer, your wood guy will make more money and you'll have primo lumber. Even if he can't sell it to you because it's already committed to someone else, just honestly offering that fair amount price is a great relationship builder. Next time he comes across those high grade logs, he'll give you first dibs, it's Win / Win for both of you...

Thanks

[Alan in Little Washington]

Originally Posted by jeff...

The way your explaining the lumber it's sounding like the logs should have went to the veneer mill, but I've done the same thing. Problem is very few people are interested in paying the price for primo lumber, so it goes to someone who will buy it. I had two grade 1 black walnut logs, I paid a pretty penny for both of them. Cut them into 8/4 and no one was interested in the lumber. I sat on the lumber for almost 6 month before I had to let it go for just a little more than I paid for the logs. I lost my shirt on that one and won't do that again.

Quite a few other times on the sawing side of the house, I've also had to bite my lip. I've whipping out clear barn wood, yep barn wood. Top grade logs cost more than lower grade logs. Trailer decking can come out of lower grade logs and furniture grade out of the higher grade logs. Higher grade logs demand higher lumber prices and if someone wants to pay me the same per board foot for high grade lumber, to build a fence, a horse stall or a piece of furniture, it really doesn't matter much to me. I have to recover my investment irregardless, that is if I want to keep sawing... Bottom line it seems like just about everyone one wants high grade lumber for next to nothing. Problem with that is it costs real dollars to make lumber. If a saw mill operator can't recover his costs and make a profit to keep things running, he won't be making lumber very long.

I'm confused, why you wouldn't just offer him what it's worth? Surely you have that fair priced figure in your head, you know the value of the lumber, don't you? By making an honest offer, your wood guy will make more money and you'll have primo lumber. Even if he can't sell it to you because it's already committed to someone else, just honestly offering that fair amount price is a great relationship builder. Next time he comes across those high grade logs, he'll give you first dibs, it's Win / Win for both of you...

Thanks

Believe me, my wood guy takes care of me. I just didn't have the need or $ this time, and besides it was plain sawn, and we have a stack of quartersawn in the barn that I can have when I need it. I was just lamenting about the use of this stuff. While I try to counsel him on what should be cut into firewood- yes, I said firewood!, vs what should be slabbed, he has to do whatever he can to make a living. If that means selling at a discount, or for truck beds, that is what he must do. There is just not the demand out here for those quantities of green cabinet grade lumber. We need to get the kiln moved and up and running, too. Right now, with the little amount he sells, he makes more money on green wood for truck beds and Cypress barn lumber than anything else. And of course he has no budget for advertising either. At least (with one exception- over a year ago he cut some Walnut for a customer, but had to pay to keep the logs) he is not paying for the trees/logs, just the sawyer. This load of oak should actually make him a profit if he gets his asking price.

[jeff...]

Originally Posted by Alan in Little Washington

Believe me, my wood guy takes care of me. I just didn't have the need or $ this time, and besides it was plain sawn, and we have a stack of quartersawn in the barn that I can have when I need it. I was just lamenting about the use of this stuff. While I try to counsel him on what should be cut into firewood- yes, I said firewood!, vs what should be slabbed, he has to do whatever he can to make a living. If that means selling at a discount, or for truck beds, that is what he must do. There is just not the demand out here for those quantities of green cabinet grade lumber. We need to get the kiln moved and up and running, too. Right now, with the little amount he sells, he makes more money on green wood for truck beds and Cypress barn lumber than anything else. And of course he has no budget for advertising either. At least (with one exception- over a year ago he cut some Walnut for a customer, but had to pay to keep the logs) he is not paying for the trees/logs, just the sawyer. This load of oak should actually make him a profit if he gets his asking price.

Sounds like there are two wood guys, one with logs that he doesn't pay for the other with a saw mill? In any event how does someone get trees / log he doesn't pay for? That's an interesting concept unless they fall out of the sky into nice stacks in the log yard, someone paid something for them. At a minimum there's a chainsaw, machine to clean up / load logs, truck / trailer to move logs, machine to unload logs. All takes a at least one person to operate and gas / oil to run, not to mention maintenance, licensee fees, insurance and sales tax. I have folks call me all the time wanting to give me trees / logs. The final straw was when a man called me to give me a large cedar tree. I got there with all my gear, to find the downed tree covered in poison ivy. Once I pointed out the poison ivy the owner said "I know"... Granted I'm not allergic to poison ivy, but still it was just the thought of it all, you know?

When I first got my mill I would spend literally hours bucking and loading 1 fallen tree, just to get a 6 or 8' log. Didn't take long for me to figure out that I was saving people countless hours of time and money they would have to spend sawing / splitting and hauling away. Just to find out, the log I picked up to be full of trash and useless for nothing but firewood . Trust me when I say, if your serious about making lumber, spend the money and buy logs from a logging outfit. They deliver, You'll get a much higher quality log and rarely will it be useless because of log trash.

Just my two cents...

Thanks

[Alan in Little Washington]

My wood guy actually runs a "tree service" as his main business- he cuts and removes trees for people. So he gets paid to remove the trees, then paid again when people by the wood. Of course he has to pay his workers- when they take down the tree, when they cut/split firewood, and when then stack lumber. He also has to pay for Woodmizer time. Overall, he is just getting by.

[jeff...]

Originally Posted by Alan in Little Washington

My wood guy actually runs a "tree service" as his main business- he cuts and removes trees for people. So he gets paid to remove the trees, then paid again when people by the wood. Of course he has to pay his workers- when they take down the tree, when they cut/split firewood, and when then stack lumber. He also has to pay for Woodmizer time. Overall, he is just getting by.

Alan that's a real bummer, being paid to remove trees and reselling the logs into either firewood or lumber, he should be doing better than just getting by. He sounds like a hard working man and should be making a decent living. Felling trees is hard and dangerous work, even with all the right equipment. I think I recall reading somewhere that logging is like the 3rd most dangerous occupation there is...

Like I said before good grade logs make good grade lumber and should fetch a good price. Only thing I could think of that may be a problem would be log trash that's very common in yard trees. It only takes one nail to ruin the lumber from an entire oak tree, traces of blue stain will be present throughout the whole tree. One of my logger buddies showed me a nice pile of grade 1 and 2 oak logs that were going to be made into firewood. He educated me, by pointing out that you can see the blue stain on each end of the 16' and better logs. Thankfully he was paid to clear a few acres for a horse pasture and wasn't under contract to pay the land owner stumpage / purchase the timber, so he didn't take much of a hit on that job. Log yards around here and even the pallet companies, see the slightest hint of blue stain and refuse the logs irregardless of what grade they are, I can't say as if I blame them either. Just imagine running a trash ridden piece of lumber trough your planner

Thanks