Time Clock Coming soon.

Time Clock Coming soon. · 10-14-2009, 10:53 AM

Hi All, I seem to run into the same problem over and over again. Almost every customer that comes to pick up there lumber, they try to beat me down on the time. I do not ride the clock, but,.... I have no way of proving it. I am going to buy a regular old time clock and cards in hopes of being able to show the customer. What I'm thinking is,... when the customer gets here writing him a ticket with what logs he brought, how many of each and have them sign it. Then, go over and start my forklift and from there walk over to the time clock and clock in. Then it's on. Anytime a drive in customer pulls up I can punch out to talk to them and back in when I'm done with him. I would do the same at break time and lunch time. Then when the customer comes for their lumber have the ticket all added up for them and when they buck on the time just show them the time card. That is as honest as I know how to be. But if they think I am a crook or a clock rider then they will know that from then on and have the option to find someone else to mill the logs. I just gave a guy my bill, and he was here the whole time but wanted to argue the time. I think this will put an end to that. One of the last things this guy said to me before he left was,... the last guy that I used didn't charge me that much. I ended up knocking 4 whole hours off his bill purely out of the goodness of my heart. And then he said that.That set me on fire. He acted like a best friend untill he got the bill. I still have 4 of his logs and he's gonna come back this weekend to help mill them. I think I'm gonna tell him, I've given it much thought and I think it would be best if we just loaded his logs up on his trailer and he can haul them to that guy that does it so much cheaper. I can go broke sitting on the couch. I'm tired of being the nice guy that takes a beating by every customer that comes along. I bought my mill as a hobby and I think I'm gonna take it back there. If ya gotta count minutes you can't afford me. The truth is the truth and I'm tired of bowing down to these tight wad folks that want everything for free. I think I pass along some really good deals but I'm starting to take a beating because of it. Do You all think the time clock will help? Any other ideas would be great.

timf67 · 10-14-2009, 11:06 AM

In this economy everyone is going to try to get something cheaper. the problem is that anytime you charge by time instead of by amount there will be people who don't agree with it. Maybe you should charge by the BF? Better yet, if you can give them a time estimate up front they can decide how much it is worth to them?

WDHTRIM · 10-14-2009, 11:07 AM

TIME CLOCKS ARE A GREAT HELP IVE USED ONE FOR YEARS IN MY SHOP AND IT HELPS ME KEEP THE HOURS ON ALL THE DIFFERENT PORJECTS STRAIGHT. AS I OFTEN HAVE OR HAD SEVERAL PROJECTS GOING AT A TIME SO I WASNT SITTING AROUNG WAITNG FOR GLUE OR FINISH TO DRY. THAT WAY EACH PROJECT HAD ITS OWN CARD AND ANYONE WHO WORKED ON IT WOULD PUNCH IN AND OUT AND AT THE END ID JUST TALY IT UP AND MAKE OUT THE BILL. BUT AS FAR AS THE CUSTOMER IF I HAD TO JUSTIFY MYSELF TO THEM MORE THATN JUST SHOWING THEM THE CARD (NONE HAS EVER ASKED) ID SEND THEM PACKNG. I USE IT TO KEEP ME STRAIGHT NOT TO PROVE IM NOT A THEIF. IF THEY DONT TRUST YOU (PROBABLY NOT THE CASE) OR JUST WANNA BEAT THE PROFIT OUT OF YOU (MUCH MORE LIKELY) YOU DONT NEED THERE BUSINESS.

CarvedTones · 10-14-2009, 11:25 AM

I recently had someone come out to work on my sprinkler system. Up front, he told me what their rate was per hour on repairs, but once he saw I needed a new zone, he switched to a job bid. I don't know what the "magic tipping point" is, but in almost all services there is a point at which clients/customers are going to be more comfortable with job bidding. I wasn't looking to hire laborers, I was looking to get my sprinkler system working right. If I were getting wood cut, I would not like the idea of paying time unless there was a cost cap on it, which pretty much turns it into a job bid.

The WoodButcher · 10-14-2009, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by WDHTRIM

TIME CLOCKS ARE A GREAT HELP IVE USED ONE FOR YEARS IN MY SHOP AND IT HELPS ME KEEP THE HOURS ON ALL THE DIFFERENT PORJECTS STRAIGHT. AS I OFTEN HAVE OR HAD SEVERAL PROJECTS GOING AT A TIME SO I WASNT SITTING AROUNG WAITNG FOR GLUE OR FINISH TO DRY. THAT WAY EACH PROJECT HAD ITS OWN CARD AND ANYONE WHO WORKED ON IT WOULD PUNCH IN AND OUT AND AT THE END ID JUST TALY IT UP AND MAKE OUT THE BILL. BUT AS FAR AS THE CUSTOMER IF I HAD TO JUSTIFY MYSELF TO THEM MORE THATN JUST SHOWING THEM THE CARD (NONE HAS EVER ASKED) ID SEND THEM PACKNG. I USE IT TO KEEP ME STRAIGHT NOT TO PROVE IM NOT A THEIF. IF THEY DONT TRUST YOU (PROBABLY NOT THE CASE) OR JUST WANNA BEAT THE PROFIT OUT OF YOU (MUCH MORE LIKELY) YOU DONT NEED THERE BUSINESS.

Amen to that, That is exactly why I want one. For my self first then for the customer. But I am truely tired of people acting like I am trying to screw them for hours. I DO NOT DO That.

Hey timf67, I would do it by the BF for big logs, but many customers think an 8" stick is a log. I think the economy is a big part of it but, when was the last time you went to lowes or anywhere else and told them you thought there price was too high and they lowered the bill for you? I doubt you have ever even tried that. I have a sign that states RATES= $45.00 HR. this includes:un-loading from your trailer, loading logs on the mill, stacking lumber, and everything else involved with the milling of YOUR logs. NO PART OF THIS IS FREE. Alot of customers think they only have to pay for the time the blade is in the log. NOT SO. Really I'm not meaning to sound snotty but typing kinda makes it hard to say what you mean with out sounding that way. Thanks for all your advice and I'm still looking for help in this matter. All ideas welcome

JimmyC · 10-14-2009, 11:34 AM

Honestly Randy,

If the last guy he went to was cheaper then why did he come to you, and more specifically why would he come back ? Do not undersell yourself, and there are always going to be guys that try talking you down.

As far as the time clock goes, if you are working by the hour, and not on total cost, I don't think it's a bad idea.

Good Luck.

Douglas Robinson · 10-14-2009, 11:42 AM

As long as the customer knows that the time starts from the moment you touch the log they have no complaint. I would send the guy who watched you the entire time and thenb complained about the bill packing! There is no call for that. If had a problem with your hourly rate he should have said something. These people need to know that if you gave everyone the discount you would go out of business and then THEY would not have someone to saw their logs!

I agree with JimmyC's comments as well.

WDHTRIM · 10-14-2009, 11:42 AM

FIRST OFF THAT IS INSANELY CHEAP MY SAWYER CHARGES $100 AN HR IF YOU BRING HIM LOGS OR BY THE BF IF IT IS HIS LOGS(USUALLY ABOUT HALF THE PRICE OF SAME WOOD KILN DRIED AT WOODSUPPLY. AND IVE NEVER FELT RIPPED OFF. YOU BUT THEN AGAIN HE HAS A HUGE MILL (ABOUT A 4FT CIRCULAR BLADE) AND CAN CUT ALOT OF LUMBER IN AN HOUR. BUT I WOULD REALLY CONSIDER COMING UP WITH A BF PRICE IT WILL BE CLEAR CUT FOR BOTH YOU AND THE CUSTOMER AND SHOULD END ANY NEED TO ADJUST OR JUSTIFY PRICING. JUST REMEMBER TO ACCOUNT FOR LOADING AND UNLOADING TIME WHEN SETTING YOUR PRICE. OR JUST KEEP DOING IT LIKE YOU ARE AND REMAKE YOUR SIGN TO SAY $45HR NO EXCEPTIONS. OR BETTER YET $45HR OR $90HR IF YOU COMPLAIN OR ANNOY ME

LOL. I SEE THESE TYPES OF SIGNS ALOT AROUND HERE.

The WoodButcher · 10-14-2009, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by JimmyC

Honestly Randy,

If the last guy he went to was cheaper then why did he come to you, and more specifically why would he come back ? Do not undersell yourself, and there are always going to be guys that try talking you down.

As far as the time clock goes, if you are working by the hour, and not on total cost, I don't think it's a bad idea.

Good Luck.

Thank You JimmyC, He said he was closer to me than the last sawyer but if he's so much cheaper, then use the money saved, for gas and haul his logs there from now on. I really think I am going to load his logs and send him to that guy. I might find out the the old sawyer was a ploy from the start.

timf67 · 10-14-2009, 11:43 AM

I also forgot to mention that people may have a preconceived idea of what it should cost either based on past experience or their uneducated guess. I have had a ~200bf white oak log milled for $50 in the past, and I know I got a DEAL. I would never expect to get that all the time, but some people might...

The WoodButcher · 10-14-2009, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Douglas Robinson

As long as the customer knows that the time starts from the moment you touch the log they have no complaint. I would send the guy who watched you the entire time and thenb complained about the bill packing! There is no call for that. If had a problem with your hourly rate he should have said something. These people need to know that if you gave everyone the discount you would go out of business and then THEY would not have someone to saw their logs!

I agree with JimmyC's comments as well.

Thank You as well Douglas Robinson, I don;t know how these people can think the hardest part of the whole operation is free??? I have never had a log just roll it's self onto the mill. And I will be paid for those things or I wont do it. When I send them packing do I let them take their lumber?? That would be after hand loading of course. How do I keep from having to pack heat at the mill???

Douglas Robinson · 10-14-2009, 11:58 AM

If you have not cut the logs yet, let them take them. Of course they will have to load the logs themselves!

If they balk then offer to help with the clear understanding that you will charge them $90/hour loading fee! If the wood has been cut then they cannot leave with the wood without paying the full boat.

Maybe you should have one of those signs: "Log cutting: $50/hour, if you watch $55/hour, if you help $65/hour, if you want the wood reloaded without being cut: $90/hour, and if you try to haggle on the price $100/hour. All work starts the moment I start unloading your logs."

WDHTRIM · 10-14-2009, 12:02 PM

HAVING BEEN A A SOMEWHAT SIMILAR SITUATTION I CAN TELL YOU THAT LAEGALLY ONCE IT IS MILLED YOU OWN THE LUMBER THERE LOG IS GONE SO IF THEY DONT PAY FOR IT KEEP IT. I ONCE HAD A CLIENT WHO I BUILT A DESK FOR COME TO MY SHOP WITH THE LAW TO PICK UP THERE DESK AFTER REFUSING TO PAY THE BILL AND WHEN WE FINALLY WENT TO COURT THE JUDGE SAID VERY PAINLY THAT THE LMBER THEY HAD BOUGHT NO LONGER EXISTED AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO PAY THE BILL IF THEY WANTED THE DESK. HOWEVER IF YOUD RATHER JUST GET HIM OUT OF YOUR HAIR ID CUT THE LUMBER INTO SCRAP AND LET HIM TAKE ALL HE WANTS OF IT LOL. THAT WAY YOU DONT GET PAID BUT HE DOESNT GET HIS LUMBER EITHER. HOWEVER ID SUGEST JUST LETTING IT GO AS THE BAD WORD OF MOUTH FROM SUCH VENGFUL ACTIONS IS LIKELY TO COST YOU A GREAT DEAL MORE THAN THE MONEY YOU HAVE TIED UP IN THE LUMBER.

The WoodButcher · 10-14-2009, 12:10 PM

Another thing, I have stoped people from helping me at the mill too. I need someone to get hurt out there like I need a butt whoopin with a golf club. This last customer helped me a little bit and I can see where he would sue the crap out of me if something happened. So from now on,... they can watch from a safe distance but no more helping me. Most of the time, there in the way more than anything else. One more thing,... I was cutting 3 2x6"s per pass and he was unloading the mill one board at a time. Whos fault is that? But he still wanted to gripe about the time.

The WoodButcher · 10-14-2009, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Douglas Robinson

If you have not cut the logs yet, let them take them. Of course they will have to load the logs themselves! If they balk then offer to help with the clear understanding that you will charge them $90/hour loading fee! If the wood has been cut then they cannot leave with the wood without paying the full boat.

Maybe you should have one of those signs: "Log cutting: $50/hour, if you watch $55/hour, if you help $65/hour, if you want the wood reloaded without being cut: $90/hour, and if you try to haggle on the price $100/hour. All work starts the moment I start unloading your logs."

I;ve seen those signs and I want one real bad. Also I want to put at the bottom of it "THIS IS NO JOKE"

Thanks LOL