met Jack, got my bow hickory plus more!

met Jack, got my bow hickory plus more! · 05-21-2009, 09:37 AM

Well, I found the hickory I was looking for; Jack (in Rolesville) had some at a very reasonable price. Nice guy and great to deal with. He asked me if persimmon is ever used for bows. It is; some incredible bows are made from it. He had a chunk of it long enough for some bow blanks that had bark on the corners. Just inside the bark layer is where bow staves for high end self bows are cut. He gave me that to try. Anyway, I cut one corner of it to use as a stave, then ripped a couple of strips for board bows and cut some of the hickory for board bow blanks also. I did a poor job of picking the right orientation for the hickory (the other 3 boards are better; why I picked this one first is beyond me) but bending tests went okay (runout is bad news with most wood, but you can get away with some in hickory). They will be backed and are destined to be low power target bows anyway. I have to make a bunch for kids. Anyway, besides the wood I got from Jack, there is a scrap of oak that will become a bow:

That's only half the persimmon he gave me and the hickory is less than half of one of the boards, which cost a whopping $5 each. I feel like I should have been wearing a mask. A persimmon stave like that (the center board) will run you over $50 from a bowyer's supply house - for just that one board.

Henry W · 05-21-2009, 09:50 AM

This is an example of why boards like North Carolina Woodworker are great. Andy is pursuing a project that I knew nothing about; there is a lot that falls into that category. In reading about Andy's his bow making, (and instrument making, and tool repair posts) I learn about areas beyond my furniture interests, areas of WW that I would not easily find elsewhere. The grand and detailed harpsichord project that we have had the benefit of reading about is another example.

Thanks for the education all.

Henry

JimmyC · 05-21-2009, 09:56 AM

I agree with you Henry,

This site has such a diversification of woodworkers it's great. There's a little to learn from everybody, and so many disciplines are followed here. Top that off with the fact that all of the people are fairly local.

CarvedTones · 05-21-2009, 10:19 AM

I am not sure I deserve to be in the same conversation as the harpsichord project. I am in awe of the craftsmanship involved in that.

To make a bow, you just taper toward the ends using some easy to find numbers for lengths and thicknesses and you hold your mouth right the first time you bend it...

That one is oak. I thought about posting it, but it has some issues that will be resolved (hopefully) in the next set. It's a good shooter, but has a "hinge" that will probably break one of these days.

owen299 · 05-21-2009, 12:02 PM

About 15 years I got into primitive archery for a while and made a few bows. I have a book
"The art of Making Primitive Bows & Arrows". Send me a p/m and give me an adress .Your more than welcome to borrow it . I may even still have an 70 inch white ash bow stave in my Dads garage. I was living in Western New York at the time. (real white and straight grained) Let me know...

CarvedTones · 05-21-2009, 12:22 PM

PM sent - thanks!

I will be plenty busy with the hickory and persimmon for a while and if/when it comes time for more, I will visit Jack again. He is going to set aside some bark slabs for me from some large hickory logs he has on the ground right now. Those are the outer "squaring" cuts. They aren't pure bark; on a large log there will be several staves in the thickest part. He says I can have them for nothing, but I won't show up empty handed...

liftnaleg1 · 05-21-2009, 10:31 PM

If you ever need some more I have tons of Hickory and Persimmon here at the house you can have...If you teach me how to make a bow for my son...i will even rip as many as you want in to blanks for you if you give me the measurements....lol. That would be so neat to build and pass down to my son...I'm hooked.

Jeff Mills · 05-21-2009, 11:19 PM

You got to meet Jack? I thought he was like the man behind the curtain.. Everyone knows of him but few have really met him

CarvedTones · 05-22-2009, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by liftnaleg1

If you ever need some more I have tons of Hickory and Persimmon here at the house you can have...If you teach me how to make a bow for my son...i will even rip as many as you want in to blanks for you if you give me the measurements....lol. That would be so neat to build and pass down to my son...I'm hooked.

Wow - very kind offer. This site and community never ceases to amaze me.

I will give you my 3 favorite links that have very specific information...

http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.ne...ni/archer.html - look at the board bow sections in particular
http://www.stickbow.com/stickbow/selfbows/ - look on the lower left at the links to the sections; his instructions are for kids' bows
http://www.vintageprojects.com/archery/bow.pdf - old plans for long bow and flat bow. The board bows at the two sites above are roughly the same plan as the flat bow.

One more if you just gotta have a bow that works ASAP:
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/23652
that's a "cookie cutter" pyramid bow.

Here is a forum frequented by "real" bowyers:
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimate...bb=forum;f=125

George Tsoukalas (his site is the first link I gave you) and John Scifres post there often and are extremely knowledgable. There are others as good, no doubt, but I am throwing out those two names because if you see something debated on the forum it's good to know who you can usually believe.

Read George's site on selecting wood first (I think it is under "board bows"). The stickbow site also has specifics on exactly what to look for in a board. They don't all have bows in them. I made some chips for the smoker last night trying to coax a piece that had too much runout into bending like a banana, but it chose to snap like a cuke instead...

CarvedTones · 05-22-2009, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Jeff Mills

You got to meet Jack? I thought he was like the man behind the curtain.. Everyone knows of him but few have really met him

I was kinda surprised - no beard, no flannel, no suspenders and no giant ox.

I was really looking forward to seeing that ox.

Seriously, Jack is a first rate guy to deal with.

Tom Dunn · 05-22-2009, 11:54 AM

Andy, I'm curious if you also make your own arrows for these bows?

A Longbow is a beautifull thing. I've little use for the "ray-gun" contraptions that pass as archery equipment these days.....

CarvedTones · 05-22-2009, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Tom Dunn

Andy, I'm curious if you also make your own arrows for these bows?

A Longbow is a beautifull thing. I've little use for the "ray-gun" contraptions that pass as archery equipment these days.....

aargh! The system thew away my reply!

Anyway, right now for the kids arrows, I use dowels and maribou. That's a flu-flu arrow; the feathers just keep the back from passing the front, but they are reasonably accurate. Using a cardboard box for a target, the dowels don't even need points. You can also use the cane they sell at the big box stores for garden stakes. Thats more work as you have to sand the "seams" and they don't hold up as well, but they are really cheap. The dowel arrows are only running me about fifty cents each though. The ultra cheap/easy way to do the flu-flu is to just carve small shavings left attached instead of feathers, but those can cause splinters. that's more a survival technique to make an arrow with nothing but a stick.

For "real" arrows, you dry saplings in a straight bundle and heat harden them individually doing final straightening.

Outa Square · 05-22-2009, 01:24 PM

There is a fellow that goes to church with me that is of Cherokee/Catawba Indian descent that practices a lot of the old skills. He makes his arrows out of straight grain eastern red cedar; he jokes that he has to start with a tree to get one arrows. He went on to say that if he can be selective of the tree he harvest he can get a higher yield but most of his stock comes from trees removed from fence lines and right of ways; and are of low quality but they would other wise be left to rot. He splits the log into billets and then into arrow blanks; right where they lay. It's amazing watching him work with primitive tools; I have never seen him make arrows but i have seen him make white oak baskets. He does use some iron tools but he has some stone tools in his woven pack that he carries with him. I need to find out how he makes them as round as they turn out? However i know if i ask him that the answer would be: "you just remove all the corners and the round will take car of its self"

People like that make things look so easy.

CarvedTones · 05-22-2009, 01:41 PM

Probably should have posted this also:

http://www.wildernessoutfittersarche...rrowmaking.pdf

That shows an easy method for rounding as part of the instructions. Like those instructions, most of the info I have found on authentic arrows don't use splits from logs. There are router jigs also. One reason to use shoots is that the arrow shaft should be tapered so that the extra wood in the back end makes up for the weight of the arrow head (at least, according to some info I have; this one confuses me because not all arrows seem to follow that "rule").