Need some advice

[jbrewer]

I just completed a hope chest. I used birch plywood with poplar trim (edge joined, molding, as well as the base) I want the stain to be like Red Mahogany. Is there a way that I can get the poplar trim to come anywhere close to the same color as the birch? I tried on several sample pieces and the poplar turns out more black than red.

Thanks for the help!

[DaveO]

You might try partially sealing the Poplar with a coat of .5-1# cut blond shellac (de-waxed)and then stain with a gel stain. The gel stain will help you to control the absorption into the wood and the shellac will also limit it. Poplar isn't known for it's ability to take stains well. Another route would be to go with a dye. I have no experience with dyes myself but I have read that they are more easily controlled.
HTH, Dave

[jbrewer]

Thanks Dave. Please forgive my ignorance, I am new to all this (that is probably obvious since I chose poplar and knew I needed a dark stain), but what exactly is .5-1# cut blond shellac (de-waxed) and where can I get that locally. I had thought about the gel stain and will definitely give that a try. I should have a nice collection of stains by the time I'm done:

[DaveO]

There are several places you can get shellac. The easiest way is to go to Lowe's/HD and get Zinnser seal-coat. It is a 2# cut blond de-waxed shellac already mixed. Then you can cut that 50/50 with denatured alcohol to get a 1# cut. Or you can go the more traditional route and order on-line or buy at a local woodworking store, shellac flakes. They will need to be dissolved, often overnight in DNA, to yield the same product. You can speed up the dissolving progress by using a coffee grinder to grind the flakes smaller (make sure its clean) The advantage to using shellac flakes is that you can get a higher quality product in a wider range of color (from super blond to dark garnet) and that you are assured freshness. Pre-mixed canned shellac has a finite shelf life and you should always check the "born on date". I like to grab my Zinnser from the way rear of the stock due to stock rotation, the oldest is generally in the front.
Dave

[erasmussen]

If you were closer I would give you some shellac flakesto try, I keep them and only mix what i am going to use because of the limited shelf life after there mixed.

[jbrewer]

Thanks for the offer and if you were closer I'd take you up on it. I am heading to HD this morning and will pick up some of the pre-mixed stuff and give it a try.

[MarvinWatkins]

You can also purchase shellac flakes from Woodcraft. I have used them before and it is great that you can mix up only what you need. Although I haven't tried the coffee grinder prep, I would suggest that it is worth a try. If you are making a 1# cut, it can take quite awihle for the big flakes to desolve.

I typically filled a jar with the flakes and denatured alcohol and shook it periodically. I actually saw someone with a very clever way to mix flakes. If you have a lathe, mix up the flakes and DNA in your jar. Once the lid is secured tightly, chuck the lid into the lathe and turn it on on a very low speed. This constant aggitation really decreases the time it takes to get the flakes into solution.

[jbrewer]

Thanks everyone for your help. I picked up some of the shellac today and will be doing some sample tests to see how the finished project will look. I also got some of the gel stain. Hopefully everything will turn out okay.

[hdc]

Birch and poplar need a seal coat, there are many good options. You can use sizing made from one part hide glue and four parts water. I've used this with great results. Laquer and even an oil urethane or water based poly acrylic work well.

I've tried sanding sealer a couple of times and it just didn't work for me.

The General Finishes guys suggest that you layer the finishing. Put a seal coat then a color coat then another seal coat. You can then adjust your color with another color coat followed by a clear coat. The prodcess retains the clarity of the finish. If you skip the clear coat, the colors can become muddy.

Finish prep is critical and one comment that GF made struck hard, people spend a hundred hours on a project and want to spend an hour finishing.

You can over sand. GF recommends no finer than 150 for oil and 220 for water based. You can seal the endgrain before staining or sand the end grain three grits more and get the same results.

I prefer dyes over pigment stains and often tint the top coat to tweak the color. Water based poly acrylic is clear and looks cold. One trick is to lightly tint the poly acrylic with honey amber dye. This warms the look and it doesn't darken like an oil.

[sapwood]

Doug,

That's a cogent, provocative, and helpful response
For wannabe woodworkers such as myself, the reference about allocating time/resources for finishing is good stuff

Roger