India Ink

India Ink · 10-07-2009, 01:52 PM

I just ordered a quart of black water proof India Ink to finish some tables for my daughter.

http://www.dickblick.com/products/bl...oof-india-ink/

Being a newbie with india ink I have a couple of questions...

* Should I brush the stuff on bare wood or spray it on? I would think you would treat it like a dye?
* Seeing it's water proof... is it cool to top coat with water based poly?
* Any pointers or tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Trog777 · 10-07-2009, 02:29 PM

I use those cheapo traveling tool show disposable foam brushes to apply India Ink. I usually brush a coat on, let it sit for a bit, wipe it down with a rag, let it dry overnight and repeat. Two, sometime three coats will get you black black. I let it dry 48 hours then spray on a water based clear (Target Coatings USL) and have never had a problem

DavidF · 10-07-2009, 02:51 PM

Trog discribed my method perfectly! one other thing - DON"T SAND until you have at least two coats of top coat on. You will be tempted because the ink raises the grain, but don't......

Jeff Mills · 10-11-2009, 05:36 PM

My first experience with India Ink. Does it turn stuff black YES, check your gloves frequently for holes... It does wash off with soap and water if you catch it before it dries.

India Ink on Red Oak = instant grain raise. I think I'm going to need to build up atleast 3 maybe 4 coats of water based poly before I even think about sanding the grain flat. Takes 2 coats of ink to completely turn RO black because it raises the grain so bad. All that pretty wood is now gone to the black side...

Kyle · 10-12-2009, 01:34 AM

Wipe it down with acetic acid first. The acetic acid(vinegar) act as as a mordant to bind the ink to the fiber of the wood. I would try a sample first to see how well it works on the wood. red Oak I would imagine is pretty receptive..

A lot stain and dye failures are due to not using a mordant to bind the dye to the wood fiber.

Here is a better explanation of mordant than I could write. I use to make stains and dyes in a previous life at UNC Hospital as a Histologist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordant

Jeff Mills · 10-17-2009, 01:14 AM

Thanks Kyle

I now have all the pieces inked and am looking at the worst grain raising I have ever had to deal with. I applied the ink directly to the bare RO sanded to 220. It takes two coats of ink to completely turn the wood and grain black, there's a good 2 hours of dry time in between coats. I bought a quart of India ink and have about 1/4 left.

I let the second coat of ink dry for atleast 12 hours before I spayed a seal coat of water based satin poly. It's black, really black but the way the grain has raised I'm going to have to build up several layers of water based poly before I start sanding in between coats. How many coats of water based poly it going to take to get a good finish is a guess at this point. But I'm guessing at least 7 before it starts looking half way decent. It's a good think I got a few weeks to get this project done.

Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Kyle · 10-17-2009, 02:20 PM

the Glacial acetic creates an inorganic salt called iron acetate when applied and that is the mordant.

here is a method i found on the "internets"

You may have to sand between application while damp to knock off the fuzz.

Jeff Mills · 10-17-2009, 06:55 PM

I think I got it finally uggg... one of the toughest finishes I ever did and don't think I will ever do it again there are much easier ways to get a black finish. Here's the steps, for quick drying satin water based poly finish.

Sand red oak piece progressively from 80 grit to 220
Apply (flood) India ink to RO
Wait 2 hours
Wipe with cloth
Apply (flood) next coat India ink to RO
Wait 2 hour
wipe with cloth
let piece dry over night

apply coat water based poly
wait 1 hour
apply next coat water based poly
wait 1 hour
apply third coat water based poly
wait 1 hour
apply forth coat water based poly
Let dry over night

Sand with ROS 220 grit till smooth (some grain will be exposed - sand trough finish)
Apply (flood) India ink to RO
Wipe with cloth (save cloth this is important)
Wait 1 hour
apply coat water based poly
wait 1 hour
Sand with ROS 320 grit till smooth (only a little grain will be exposed sand trough finish)
Wipe with saved cloth from before (cloth still pretty wet with India ink)
wipe dry with new cloth
apply coat water based poly
wait 1 hour
Sand with ROS 400 grit till smooth (very little grain will be exposed)
touch up spots sanded through with cloth still wet with india ink
wipe dry touch up spots with dry cloth
apply coat water based poly
wait 1 hour
Sand with ROS 600 grit till smooth (no grain should be showing now)
apply coat water based poly
wait 1 hours
apply coat water based poly
wait 1 hours
apply coat water based poly
wait 2 hours
Done for now...

Gotcha6 · 10-17-2009, 10:25 PM

If the poly wasn't going on thick enough, could you have just sanded & re inked between sandings down to a smaller grit before any poly? Would that have made the places where the grain was low get too dark?

woodlaker2 · 10-17-2009, 11:18 PM

Did you try Kyle's suggestion re: applying a mordant?

Jeff Mills · 10-18-2009, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by Gotcha6

If the poly wasn't going on thick enough, could you have just sanded & re inked between sandings down to a smaller grit before any poly? Would that have made the places where the grain was low get too dark?

I think the problem is that India ink is about the consistency of water maybe thinner than water. As soon as it hits bare RO the grain raises instantly, you can actually see it raising the grain.

Jeff Mills · 10-18-2009, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by woodlaker2

Did you try Kyle's suggestion re: applying a mordant?

No I did not I had already started by the time Kyle posted. I don't think I'll be messing with India ink again anytime soon. Kyle has some really good info that I would have used if I hadn't already started.

Kyle · 10-18-2009, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by Jeff Mills

No I did not I had already started by the time Kyle posted. I don't think I'll be messing with India ink again anytime soon. Kyle has some really good info that I would have used if I hadn't already started.

Only because I have messed up a few times as well on wood.

..Knowledge only happens with experience good and bad..

DavidF · 10-19-2009, 10:59 AM

Two things to add. From my ink project: I did two flood coats of the ink and thin added 3 black tinted coats of clear finish before adding 3 more coats of plain clear.

At the end I said that next time I wanted a true black that obscures the grain I would spray paint with black (duh) and then apply the clear finish to give me the depth I needed.

jlwest · 10-19-2009, 02:50 PM

Jeff,
I built a red oak corner TV stand with shelves for components and stuff. My wife wanted it black so I just used flat black paint, two coats lighly sanded, and two coats of urathane as final coat. Seems to have worked fine.

Jeff