A couple of finishing questions...

A couple of finishing questions... · 02-01-2008, 06:37 PM

I have a big finishing project slated for this weekend and I have a couple of questions before I start.
First I am using an oil based stain with a General Finishes Polyacrylic top coat. I know that when using water based finishes you should pre-raise the grain. Should I do that before the oil based stain, or will the use of the stain negate the need to raise the grain???
The second question is more one of aesthetics and opinion. These are casework pieces that I am staining, and I don't want to stain the interior of the cases. As a matter of a fact I want to stain as little of them as possible because they are quite large and it will be very time consuming. Where do y'all stop staining?? I am thinking of just wrapping the stain around the face frames without getting it onto the carcass itself. What about case backs, the pieces will be up against the wall. Is it wrong to skip that area? If acceptable would you just stain a small perimeter of the backs for a smooth line of demarcation? If I can skip the backs I would cut my stain usage in half

I would still clear coat everything, because I am hoping to spray that it won't be too bad.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts, advice, or guidance.
Dave

FIVEBYFIVE · 02-01-2008, 06:42 PM

Not sure I can help you on the first question. The second, not sure i can help much. I stain everything. It sucks at times. I have a project that was suppose to be a xmas present, and it sits in my shop. Robbing me of precious space. What kind of wood is it made of?

DaveO · 02-01-2008, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by FIVEBYFIVE

What kind of wood is it made of?

Red Oak, a mix of QS, rift sawn, flat sawn, and ply.
I definitely don't want to stain everything. I want to avoid the down time due to the oil finish off-gassing (main reason I am use a water based topcoat).

Another question that just popped into my head while typing this. Generally oil finishes aren't used inside of case work for the lingering smell, but what do you do about the doors? I finished a kitchen hutch almost a year ago, and only used shellac for the interior, except the doors which got an oil based stain and poly finish on both sides. It still stinks, and leaving the doors open for several weeks isn't an option

Dave

FIVEBYFIVE · 02-01-2008, 07:08 PM

I the wood look good, just clear coat it. Red Oak is a beautiful wood, why cover up the natural beauty. Use some type of oil finish, lindseed i dont remember the one I have seen David Marcs use, but it really make the wood grain POP.

DaveO · 02-01-2008, 07:18 PM

Believe me, if it was for a paying client who requested this finish I wouldn't be doing it. Especially a finish this dark. I am generally a no stain, or very natural color stain (especially on Oak) type of guy. But the customer is always right...even when they're wrong

Dave

erasmussen · 02-01-2008, 07:39 PM

I hate stain's

Travis Porter · 02-01-2008, 08:43 PM

For me in my past experience, the oil stain has negated the grain raising issues. The big key I have found is ensuring that the stain is COMPLETELY dry before applying the waterbased top coat.

As for what to stain, and what not, I stop at the face frames. Blue tape works well as you will want the transition from stained to unstained to be nice and crisp so I would put the blue tape on the backside of the face frame. I never stain the backs.

There, I admit it, I used to be a heavy stainer of wood. Minwax was the one I used the most, but I can now say I have seen the light. I do not stain if at all possible, and when I do, I now try to use dyes as they are much easier as I spray them in the wb finish and then top coat with clear wb finish.

This site and the comments I have read and the pictures of others projects I have seen caused the transition, and I can sincerely say, I have no regrets!

mshel · 02-01-2008, 08:50 PM

Dave,

For my case pieces that are stained, I stain what can be seen from the front, sides, top. I don't stain the back but if the back is inset, I do stain the edge of the casework in the back. Were it me, I would do the front and inside edge of the face frames, sides, front molding if any and feet if any. As for the oil stain, no need to raise the grain. Just don't sand too fine or the stain won't take well. Just my two centavos.

Mike

DaveO · 02-01-2008, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by Travis Porter

For me in my past experience, the oil stain has negated the grain raising issues. The big key I have found is ensuring that the stain is COMPLETELY dry before applying the waterbased top coat.

As for what to stain, and what not, I stop at the face frames. Blue tape works well as you will want the transition from stained to unstained to be nice and crisp so I would put the blue tape on the backside of the face frame. I never stain the backs.

Thanks Travis, that was the thoughts/opinions that I was looking for.
Dave

DaveO · 02-01-2008, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by mshel

Dave,

For my case pieces that are stained, I stain what can be seen from the front, sides, top. I don't stain the back but if the back is inset, I do stain the edge of the casework in the back. Were it me, I would do the front and inside edge of the face frames, sides, front molding if any and feet if any. As for the oil stain, no need to raise the grain. Just don't sand too fine or the stain won't take well. Just my two centavos.

Mike

Mike thanks for seconding the opinions

If that is what's done on as fine of work as you do. Then it is appropriate enought for the stuff I do.
Dave

DaveO · 02-01-2008, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mike Davis

Have you considered a water based stain? A long time ago (25 years or more) I used Acrylic artist color from a tube and thinned it down to spray on a bookshelf and it looked great. I think I used about half a small tube in a quart of water with a couple oz. of DNA to speed drying. Burnt Sienna with a touch of black makes a good walnut color. Half and half alcohol might work and you could re-coat in 20 minutes.

Of course you would have to test it on RO, I was using pine.

Mike I would love to change my finish schedule to something easier (although I am not concerned about the compatibility or application of the stain), but it has taken my client about 2 months to decide on the original finish sample I gave her...I want these things out of my shop ASAP

Dave

Makinsawdust · 02-01-2008, 09:25 PM

I used one of General's WB stains on red oak for the first time a couple of weeks ago. It worked pretty well. I used it because I didn't have much time and needed the low odor properties. It drys in minutes and you can move on to clear coat quickly. The only thing I hate about doing WB is the extreme grain raise on oak. Of the woods I have used WB on, the oak required the most work to tame the grain raise. Unless there's a special need, I'd go with oil on oak for this reason. I think oil stain followed by a few coats of poly or Waterlox is a fool prove, easy way to get a good professional looking finish without making things complicated. Just my .o2
Rob

NZAPP1 · 02-01-2008, 09:44 PM

Dave
The oil stain will need to dry any where from 24 to72 Hours before top coating. I would do the door of the cabinets and leave them off as long as I cam to let the finish cure and reduce the smell. Just my $.02