Black Finish (white vinegar & steel wool) Update... - Page 2

Black Finish (white vinegar & steel wool) Update... · 10-01-2009, 12:28 AM

It's been many years since I've messed with black any suggestions on black dyes for RO?

Thanks

Jeff Mills · 10-02-2009, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by rbdoby

Jeff,

Here's a picture of 2 chairs I finished last weekend. The pieces for both chairs were split out of the same red oak log. One I left natural the other was stained with a solution of white vinegar and steel wool. Finished both with Danish oil and used binder cane to weave the seats.

Let a wad of steel wool set in a pint of white vinegar overnight, strained it with a coffee filter. Applied the solution with a spray bottle. It only took about 20 minutes for the red oak to turn black. I let it dry for a couple of days to let the vinegar smell air out before I applied the Danish oil.

Hope this helps.

Rick Doby

That looks like it's about the shade I'm trying to achieve.

I have a couple of newbie questions...

1) did your steel wool disolve or was it still in bottom of the jar?
2) will multiple home brew coats turn the oak blacker?
3) will RO sapwood also turn black?

Thanks

RandyJ · 10-02-2009, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff Mills

Although I am surprised Fred didn't chime in about dragging broads around a mud hole or something...

You guys better be careful dragging broads anywhere

. LOYL may not like that!!!

rbdoby · 10-02-2009, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff Mills

That looks like it's about the shade I'm trying to achieve.

I have a couple of newbie questions...

1) did your steel wool disolve or was it still in bottom of the jar?

The steel wool did not dissolve and was still in the bottom of the jay. I had washed the steel wool with dish detergent to remove the oil from manufacturing. After sitting for a couple of hours I used a piece of red oak scrap to push the steel wool back to the bottom of the bottom of the jar. It had gas bubbles in it and had floated to the top. Went and fed the cat. When I walked back into the shop I noticed that the stick I used to push the steel wool to the bottom of the jar had already turned black. About 15 minutes. That stick actually turned blacker than the chair, so I don't think you need to let the solution set overnight and allow the steel wool to rust.

2) will multiple home brew coats turn the oak blacker?

I sprayed the chair with the solution until it was dripping wet and let it soak. I didn't try a second coat because the first coat gave me the results I wanted. If you look closely at the wood you can see that the softer parts of the grain turned black but the harder parts did not. You can see red streaks in the wood. Multiple might turn them black, try it and let us know.

3) will RO sapwood also turn black?

This stuff reacts with the tannin in the wood. If there is enough tannin in the sapwood it should turn black. I had my chair on a outside on a bale of straw when I sprayed it. It turned the straw black.

Thanks

This was the first time I had tried this finish. You may want to do some testing on you own. Be careful. LOML now wants me to build 8 more chairs for our dinning room table with this type of finish and cane seats.

Rick Doby

Jeff Mills · 10-02-2009, 02:45 PM

I'm actually a little disappointed in my initial home brew results. Steel wool and a couple of rusted steel chunks has been in the vinegar for a little over 24 hours now. The brew does turn RO black but not completely... you can see "red" in the grain lines I was hoping it would turn the grain lines black and perhaps shade the spaces in between the grain lines various shades of black and purple. The home brew does the opposite

Also the sapwood was turned more gray than black. Here's a few sample pics - I purposely grabbed a RO chuck that was 1/2 heart/sap wood so I could see how it worked on both.

Anyone have a good source for India ink?

Endgrain

Heartwood face

Sapwood face

Heart/Sap wood side

Thanks

rbdoby · 10-02-2009, 03:17 PM

Jeff,

Check this out for ink. Remember that a little goes a long way.

http://www.dickblick.com/products/bl...oof-india-ink/

Charles Neil has a short video on ebonizing and turbine sprayers. It might help.

http://charlesneilwoodworking.com/ca...=ebonizing.flv

Rick Doby

nelsone · 10-02-2009, 05:55 PM

Read through Brian's article. He used some kind of powder to get the tannins to where the reaction would work.

FredP · 10-02-2009, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff Mills

I figured I would give the home brew a chance. After seeing what steel does to fresh sawn oak, I figure it might just work. Red Oak smells a lot like puke anyways so what's a little vinegar going to hurt?

If the home brew don't work - I got lots of other things to try thanks for all the tips. Although I am surprised Fred didn't chime in about dragging broads around a mud hole or something...

never drag broads thru the mud! they turn red.

then you turn black. [black and blue that is] however dunkin or dippin is perfectly exeptable [sort of]

Jeff Mills · 10-03-2009, 11:18 PM

FYI... after researching a little more - I'm supposed to let the home brew sit till the steel wool is gone - don't know how long that will take but I'll give it another try then.

Hank Knight · 10-05-2009, 04:11 PM

Nice chairs, Rick.

Jeff Mills · 10-08-2009, 05:31 PM

Update...

I let the home brew finish "cooking" took about a week for the vinegar to eat up all the steel wool and clean the rust off 2 small chunks of steel I had sitting in the bottom of the mason jar. I transferred the nasty blackish brown brew from one mason jar to another through a coffee filter. I started this experiment with a close to full quart mason jar, by the time I transferred it, I had a little over 1/2 a quart left. I poured a little in a cleaned out (with vinegar) windex bottle and sprayed liberally it on a scrap piece of RO. To my amazement it turned the scrap piece of RO completely black after the brew dried. I'll snap a pic later after I'm sure it's good and dry. Anyways it appears the home brew really does work... I just needed to wait for the vinegar to eat up all the steel wool... in my case it was about a week.

Thanks

Jeff Mills · 10-08-2009, 07:12 PM

well not as black as I thought... The top one was sprayed, twice the bottom once, both coated with a little BLO. Little to no penetration either... Odd how a second coat of home brew turn RO brown... very inconsistent

Thanks

BillPappas · 10-08-2009, 07:53 PM

Jeff,

I use Behlens Solarlux black dye for a first coat then I use the india ink on top. I usually add the India Ink to my top coat and apply it after the Behlens. The reason for using both the dye and the ink is the dye gets in to the wood so a scratched surface where the ink is will not show up because the dye soaked into the wood, In addition, the the dye leaves a sort of grey black color and the India ink makes the wood dark black with no hint of grey

Regards,

Bill

WDHTRIM · 10-11-2009, 12:38 AM

HOW DOES THE INDIA INK THING WORK? IVE BEEN HEARING ABOUT IT FOR YEARS BUT NEVER REALLY GOT THE SPECS. WHAT KIND/S OF TOP COAT CAN YOU MIX IT WITH? CAN IT BE USED OTHER WAYS THAN MIXED WITH TOPCOAT? NEVER REALLY HAD A REASON TO DIE WOOD BLACK BUT SINCE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT THOUGHT ID ASK.

Jeff Mills · 10-11-2009, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by WDHTRIM

HOW DOES THE INDIA INK THING WORK? IVE BEEN HEARING ABOUT IT FOR YEARS BUT NEVER REALLY GOT THE SPECS. WHAT KIND/S OF TOP COAT CAN YOU MIX IT WITH? CAN IT BE USED OTHER WAYS THAN MIXED WITH TOPCOAT? NEVER REALLY HAD A REASON TO DIE WOOD BLACK BUT SINCE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT THOUGHT ID ASK.

Walt I started a thread on India Ink here --->http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/f55/india-ink-26358/ I got some real good advise on how to apply it.

My order of India Ink came in yesterday. As soon as the wife finishes drying my work clothes and I run up to dollar general for some gloves, I'll be off to the races making the tables at the tale end of this thread black ---> http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/f...41/index2.html

I'll try and keep you guys posted on India Ink lessons learned.

Thanks