Festool Domino Joining System

[rcflyer23]

Okay can some one explain to me why the heck I would want to buy this. Is it that much seperior to other loose tenon systems? I mean it is cool but their website shows $750 for the system. I am just being cheap?

[mkepke]

Originally Posted by McRabbet

<snip> The doors I made had four panes each, separated by conventional mullions. But I realized that conventional cope and stick joints would not provide adequate strength at the rail/stile joints.
<snip>
And to answer Mark's question about strength, the size of the loose tenon versus a standard biscuit shows there is no comparison.

Rob - what size are those doors ? My eyesight isn't good enough to read the tape measure. And what kind of glass did you use - single-strength (3/32") ?

My gut instinct looking at those doors is that they are about the size of kitchen cabinet doors (?) and probably *lighter* than traditional solid wood doors. For which traditional cope-and-stick cutters work fine. What made you think you needed reinforcement ?

On the issue of "no comparison" - have you been experiencing failures with biscuits ?

I keep asking that question because how much strength is enough ? I guess if we all had Dominos, it would be a non-issue and we could stop using pocket screws, dowels, biscuits, etc - and all those other things that have traditionally worked pretty well in the right application(s).

Can you loan me $1K ?

-Mark

[Tarhead]

Here's one of favorite applications with the Domino:



Very few metal fasteners other than a few 23g pins for the backs and trim on this Bookshelf/Chest project. Even the faceframe was registered and fastened with small Dominos:

[rcflyer23]

Sweet.. I bet that is one strong joint there..

[Travis Porter]

Rob's project was an outdoor project where it probably wouldn't be well taken care of, ie abused. Still, in cope and stick doors you are not going to be able to put a biscuit in for reinforcement.

Where a domino stands out to me would be in building say a table and using the dominoes instead of mortise and tenon joinery in the aprons, not a place I have used biscuits.. Still, to your point, I have never had a biscuit failure.

When is enough enough? I don't know. I came within a hair of buying a used domino last week and backed down (bought too much else already).

Originally Posted by mkepke

Rob - what size are those doors ? My eyesight isn't good enough to read the tape measure. And what kind of glass did you use - single-strength (3/32") ?

My gut instinct looking at those doors is that they are about the size of kitchen cabinet doors (?) and probably *lighter* than traditional solid wood doors. For which traditional cope-and-stick cutters work fine. What made you think you needed reinforcement ?

On the issue of "no comparison" - have you been experiencing failures with biscuits ?

I keep asking that question because how much strength is enough ? I guess if we all had Dominos, it would be a non-issue and we could stop using pocket screws, dowels, biscuits, etc - and all those other things that have traditionally worked pretty well in the right application(s).

Can you loan me $1K ?

-Mark

[PeteQuad]

I only have one Festool tool, and it is the Domino. It's a great tool and has made mortise and tenon joinery simple for this beginner. Biscuits are fine, but they can not do everything a domino does, which is pretty much everything a mortise and tenon can do. This includes through tenons (you can buy dominos with different woods for different effects). I wouldn't feel comfortable using biscuits on a table, but like I said I'm a beginner and suffer from that disease of over building things. I haven't made a chair with Dominos yet, but I will attempt it someday .

I am currently attaching large wooden hooks to a post for a hall tree with dominos. There is a good chance my kids will get a hold and pull on them, which is fine. I wouldn't feel so confident with a biscuit (would have to be very small biscuits since the hooks are not very wide at the base).

Also, I do not have a Festool vacuum. I use my Ridgid vacuum with a HEPA filter and a mini cyclone. It works great, although the connection is a little more cludgy than the native Festool one. Mostly I think the Festool stuff is priced too high and not really worth it. I am very glad I have a Domino, it is a real luxury... whether it's worth it depends on the person I guess.

[McRabbet]

Originally Posted by mkepke

Rob - what size are those doors ? My eyesight isn't good enough to read the tape measure. And what kind of glass did you use - single-strength (3/32") ?

My gut instinct looking at those doors is that they are about the size of kitchen cabinet doors (?) and probably *lighter* than traditional solid wood doors. For which traditional cope-and-stick cutters work fine. What made you think you needed reinforcement ?

On the issue of "no comparison" - have you been experiencing failures with biscuits ?

I keep asking that question because how much strength is enough ? I guess if we all had Dominos, it would be a non-issue and we could stop using pocket screws, dowels, biscuits, etc - and all those other things that have traditionally worked pretty well in the right application(s).

Can you loan me $1K ?

-Mark

Mark,

The doors were 18" wide by 16" tall and used single strength glass as you surmised. The rails and stiles were only 1-12" wide and I used a special glass door router bit set ( MLCS 8848 ) that is shallower than a conventional rail/stile cutter set (only 3/16" deep versus 3/8" for most R/S bits). So I opted to use tenons to add considerable strength. I did not use biscuits because they are too long for this application -- both #20 and #10 biscuits are over 2" long and the slot would be difficult to hide. And besides, who wouldn't opt for a use of a fancy new tool!!

Sorry to say I'm fresh out of $1,000 bills...

Rob

Originally Posted by Travis Porter

Rob's project was an outdoor project where it probably wouldn't be well taken care of, ie abused. Still, in cope and stick doors you are not going to be able to put a biscuit in for reinforcement.

Wrong project, Travis -- The outdoor project had large Lexan windowed doors with 2" rails and stiles that were half-lapped and pegged.

Biscuits would not have worked there either because the door frames were too narrow.

[BillPappas]

Fine tools and addictive - buy one and you are on the way down a very slippery slope!

Regards,

Bill

[Charles M]

Originally Posted by WoodWrangler

of course, Fein, I think, just released a tool much like the Domino that does dowels

You may be thinking of this one from Freud:

http://www.freudtools.com/news.aspx?showarticle=16

[rcflyer23]

Oh man Charles now you got me drooling over that one. All this time I had no idea freud was in High Point. I used to live off North Main until about a year ago. I am going to have to look into that tool I have a project coming up that by the plan uses biscuits but I think I like how that does things better.

I so need to win the lottery. I want to many tools.

[Charles M]

Kevin,

We've been on the south end of High Point off Fairfield Rd for over 30 years. Let me know if you have any questions about the joiner.

[WoodWrangler]

Originally Posted by Charles M

You may be thinking of this one from Freud:

http://www.freudtools.com/news.aspx?showarticle=16

Yep, that's the one! Sorry, I said Fein but thought Freud!

[rcflyer23]

Originally Posted by Charles M

Kevin,

We've been on the south end of High Point off Fairfield Rd for over 30 years. Let me know if you have any questions about the joiner.

Shows how much I paid attention to the area. I went to High School in HP and lived there for 10 years. You would have thoughy I would have connected the dots. Oh well. I still have family up there I will have to ride by one weekend and connect the dots.