Circular saw mill? or Bandsaw mill?

NCPete · 03-31-2006, 09:54 PM

This is an open letter to Kyle, thought it would be interesting to many other members here.

Kyle,

I noticed on your website today that you have both the Lucas mill (circular blade) and the Woodmizer. It looks like you recently added the Woodmizer recently. If you were to start-up all over again, and were buying only one mill, which one would you get, and why? How tdo they compare operationally?

Thank you.

Pete

DaveO · 03-31-2006, 10:15 PM

IMHO, I would think that a bandsaw mill would be best. The blades are much cheaper, the kerf smaller, resulting in less waste, and they just feel safer to be around. I look forward to Kyle's reply and the thoughts of others on this subject.

Pete, you looking to buy a mill????

Dave

NCPete · 03-31-2006, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by DaveO

IMHO, I would think that a bandsaw mill would be best. The blades are much cheaper, the kerf smaller, resulting in less waste, and they just feel safer to be around. I look forward to Kyle's reply and the thoughts of others on this subject.

Pete, you looking to buy a mill????

Dave

Discussed this very idea with MichaelGarner earlier today. He's got some big plans for a custom cabinet/furniture shop in Fayetteville, and something like a custom mill would be great to feed the shop with...

michaelgarner · 04-01-2006, 10:53 AM

Yes sir,,NCPete is right on the ball, I have my dilussions of grandure for the future. I am seriously looking into getting my own mill process started up. The better half of my life and I are going to by some property and the first thing (she said it first,,about knocked me on the floor) we build is the shop. I want to do a lot of custom work in the home so a nice big shop with a studio and loft appt will be coming down the road. (long term here guys) NCpete and I have discussed which model of saw, and would like anyones info on whats being used and the +- of the gear, have a blessed day everyone.

Travis Porter · 04-01-2006, 11:05 AM

I have had timber cut 3 or 4 times. All from the same guy with a woodmizer. It was ok, but it wasn't great in my opinion. The blade wandered a lot and thickness of boards would vary from 7/8" to 1 1/4". It got especially bad around knots as the blades would deflect in my opinion. It could have been his feed rate was too fast or his blades were dull, but it was impossible to just plane the boards. It was mandatory to joint them to get one side flat and by the time you did that you were running close to 3/4" so it limits my use of the wood.

Ken Weaver · 04-01-2006, 11:33 AM

Ken Massingale and I used a sawyer locally who had a wood-mizer. The results were very consistent but unlike Travis, this guy changed blades 3 times doing our stuff. He told us they only cost about $12-$15 to sharpen so he didn't hesitate to change out the blades.

sapwood · 04-01-2006, 12:01 PM

Ken, thanks for the pictorial!

Never been there, done that--cool to see

Sapwood

Ken Weaver · 04-01-2006, 10:25 PM

You're welcome Sapwood - it was a lot of fun. We're going back through it before long, I have to get the stuff in my driveway through the same process.

Kyle · 04-01-2006, 11:40 PM

Hello all,

Both mills have their positives and negatives:

Lucas Mill-

positive- long blade life, easy to maintain(very few working parts) can cut huge slabs, can cut siding, can cut very large trees ( I have cut up to 58" in DIAMETER with mine..not circumference.. diameter.) Excellent for consistent flooring material. Very reliable. Inexpensive to purchase. expensive blades and chains (comparitively) Can sharpen right on the machine in 5 minutes.

negative- Slightly thicker kerf than a bandmill. Many operations are manual. Can work you like a mule. Problems dogging the log when the saw gets close to the bottom. Does not saw small logs well. cant cut flitch style except in slabber mode. Average cost Model 618 -10K, model 827 13-14K without slabber. Can only cut about 800 BF a day without help although slabbing and making large beams can do up to 1500-2000 a day.

I run in dedicated slabber mode and sharpen my own ripping chains.

Woodmizer-
positive- Hydraulics. Inexpensive blades. Inexpensive sharpening. Can cut flitch syle. Less kerf loss. Less labor intensive. can cut MUCH faster. I can cut around 2000 bf a day in wide boards,

negatives- more expensive than a swing arm.more working parts that require routine maintence. Blade can wander when it becomes dull .Cannot cut slabs over 23" diameter. Only 500-600 bf between blade changes on hard material

cost for LT40 HDD new is 28.9K , used 18-20K( doesn't lose much value)

I run this for grade sawing, production sawing and to minimize kerf loss on expensive wood.

To address the inconsistent thickness issue... the guy must be running a lower model or a model without a thickness gauge because mine is VERY consistent. You dont saw for others if you make thick and thins and use dull blades. I only use woodmizer and monksforsager blades on my machine everything else is crap. I run a 1.25 thick on a 10 degree tooth and 9 degree on hard or frozen wood.

Sawmilling though can be VERY time consuming frequently consuming all the time you thought you would spend making furniture. Sawing is only 1/4 of the fun. There is stickering, drying, moving and seperating the wood. You will handle a stick of lumber at least 5 times before a sale or use. To start a basic sawmilling operation you will need a reliable mill, space for drying, tractor or fork moving logs and lumber, reliable log sources, market niche, kiln and some value added process to make the wood that no one wants worth your time.

I thick I have spent 70K to get started and I still need a chipper, edger, yardlift and flatbed truck. I have to keep around 15-20K in lumber around for people to pick through as well. I make flooring and stair treads out of all the other stuff no one wants..#1 cherry sells for 2.25 on the wholesale market "rustic" cherry plank flooring sells for 4-7/sf.

I would buy my bandmill first if I did it over again and I STILL would buy a lucas mill as a dedicated slabber.

NCPete · 04-01-2006, 11:49 PM

Kyle, excellent input. Thank you very much! I pretty much expected that you would say both have significant advantages over the other for specific operations. This is one thing I certainly don't want to try the old fashioned way!
I am a little shocked that you would say get the Woodmizer first, however.
thank you!

Ken Weaver · 04-02-2006, 07:50 AM

Thanks for the insght Kyle - very interesting to hear some of the ins and outs of the "other" side of our hobby. Thanks!