Biesemeyer on a Dewalt DW746 with a Dewalt Sliding Table

[mburke911]

Hello,
I thought I would post some notes I have after installing a Biesemeyer 30” commercial fence on a Dewalt DW746X with the Dewalt DW7461 Sliding table installed. There were several technical issues that had to be overcome.

Let’s start with what the finished product looks like I didn’t take a photo of the saw before I started..




First removing the old rails and mounting hardware necessitated removing the bolts that held the sliding table in place. Fortunately through a design by Dewalt the table is did not need to be removed, the bolts server to secure the mounting hardware but are not actually under and stress. They server to tighten the table in place. The sliding table bolts protrude through the table and were in the way of the Biesemeyer L-bracket. They had to be removed while attempting to find a solution.


Next it became obvious that no matter what was done with the L-Brackets they would be too high to allow the sliding table to move. The options were to modify the L-Bracket by cutting the necessary material off or shifting the entire rails setup to the right. It also, eventually, became clear that the fence rail (square piece attached to the front L-Bracket that the fence slides left and right on) would also prevent the sliding table from moving. Sigh. This meant that the only way to use the Biesemeyer fence would be to shift the entire system to the right almost 20”! No piece of the L-Bracket or the fence rail could in the way of the sliding table or it would prevent movement.




I have to say that I was a bit irritated. Biesemeyer had no information on their site, had no suggestions about how to mount this and they didn’t call me back when I left a message for tech support. I was hoping they might have an insight that would save me time. As it was I ended up repositioning the front L-Bracket four separate times (with holes being drilled etc). I feel a little thick but I didn’t expect the fence to ride so close to the table. The stock DeWalt fence sits fairly low. Anyway, I hope this post will save someone some time.

I figured out that I cold use the front rail mounting hardware to secure the sliding table (i.e. bolt it in place. And I shifted the L-brackets to the right of the mounting hardware. Now while this worked in the sense it took care of aligning the front and rear L-brackets it did cause an unexpected issue (see photo below).




The front fence rail has pre-drilled holes that mate with holes on the front L-bracket. These holes are perfectly aligned to keep the front fence rail parallel to the L-bracket. I didn’t want to drill new holes as any deviation across the length of the L-bracket would throw the fence off parallel with the table. So I had to shift the front rail an additional 3 ½” to the right of the forward mounting old for the sliding table. Otherwise the fence rail would sit too far to the Left and interfere with the sliding table.

Lastly, the front (operator side) mounting hardware used to attach the sliding table interfered with the travel of the Biesemeyer fence, preventing cuts close to the blade. The photo above shows the rear bolts. I used two of the flush bolts and nuts included with the Biesemeyer fence kit. Use the largest flush bolts. This did solve the problem.




I have to say that overall I would have expect a bit more from Biesemeyer and had I paid full price for this kit I would have been irate. Since I got the set on discount I won’t complain too much. The last issue that I have is that the fence will not function if there isn’t a table below it. The old Dewalt rails ran on both the front and rear rails so they could be used beyond the cast iron table even if there wasn’t an extension table installed. The Biesemeyer is not functional beyond the end of the extension table. So ultimately I have to add another extension table (and probably the support legs) to use the full length right of the blade.



Also, since I had to move the fence rail it sticks out beyond the ends of the L-brackets. Not ideal. Perhaps I will have to remove some material from the L-brackets, the Fence rail to get the sizing correct. The saw now takes up significantly more space than it did before.

I hope this long post helps someone else avoid the frustration I experienced trying to make this system work. Overall I am please with the fence upgrade and I can’t wait to finish calibrating it and get to making some sawdust.

Best,

Mark

[FredP]

I believe the beis fence was around long before the DW saw so i would not be so hard on the fence manufacturer! the beis will operate without the table extention with a slight mod. drill and tap a hole in the underside of the fence directly above the rear rail. Install a bolt with a locking nut n this hole and adjust it to ride on the rear rail. a small piece of the slippery plastic stuff glued to the bolt will keep it sliding smooth.
looks like a sweet set up once you get the kinks worked out.

fred p

[mburke911]

Fred,
I was not trying to be hard on the Biesemeyer fence, but their customer service could have returned my call. I like the fence, I am hoping to prevent others from going through the same frustrating expericence.

Thanks for the suggestion about the rear rail.


Best,

Mark

[FredP]

Originally Posted by mburke911

Fred,
I was not trying to be hard on the Biesemeyer fence, but their customer service could have returned my call. I like the fence, I am hoping to prevent others from going through the same frustrating expericence.

Thanks for the suggestion about the rear rail.


Best,

Mark

understood. since delta took over bies and B&D took over delta customer service seems to have fallen by the wayside! Its a shame but thats the new corporate america for ya. its all about the $$$$$ now.

fred

[junquecol]

Biesemeyer operations are being shifted from Arizona to Jackson TN. There aren't many happy campers at Biese. right now. Actually operations in AZ may have already ceased, and thus the customer no service. They simply don't have any experienced employees right now. Other than plant manager (who B&D sent out there) no employees are being retained. From a business sense it is the right move to locate distribution for two compatable product lines into same facility.

[mburke911]

Bruce,
You sound like you have intimate knowledge of what's going on. Consolidation sucks for the employee. While that makes sense, I think management is at fault for not planning ahead and preventing a staffing shortages. Probably "upper" management's decision. Ultimately I assume that there won't be any worth while customer support for just about anything I buy now a days. If I can't solve my issue is some cases I just return the product and buy something else. In this case, from what I have heard about Biesemeyer's reputation I hoped that I would get some assistance.

Mark

[junquecol]

Mark, You have to remember that the people who USED to work there are no longer employed. All production is being moved to Jackson TN. As fences are basically a piece of rect. tubing and angle iron, I don't see any advantage to moving production offshore. The freight would be more than the raw materials. With CNC machines doing drilling and cutting, and robitic welders doing the little bit of welding, there isn't much labor involved in building one of these fences. Probably the most labor intensive item is attaching faces to fence tube. All adjustments are done after installation by the end product user.

[DavidF]

Nice mod in the end, I hope it works out well. Having said that, I have to ask why? I chose the DW over most everything else I could have afforded just because of the great fence! it is one of the best and most reliable I have come across; what made you change?

[mburke911]

David,
There isn't anything "wrong" with the Dewalt fence from a functionality point. Not really anyway. Here are my reasons for switching:

1. I got a good deal on the Biesemeyer. I would not have gone out of my way to buy a Biesemeyer (although I wanted one) because I have other shop tools / equipment that are higher on the priority list. That being said the price was right for what I consider to be a better engineered fence. I was actually on my way to making a "knock off" by adding a UHMW sheet to replace the extruded metal face. So this worked out well for me.

2. The extruded metal facing isn't sturdy enough for my liking. Whenever I try to clamp anything to it I notice fence deflection, which will introduce error into my cuts.

3. Not having a face on the opposite side doesn't make sense to me. The Biesemeyer provides that.

4. Clamping to it is a pain in the rear end. While I have figure out a way to do it causes the problem I mentioned in #2.

5. The shear bulk of the Biesemeyer and ease of movement. It glides very, very nice for such a heavy / sturdy fence.

I hope that helps. I have been happy with my Dewalt saw and I really love the sliding table. If you don't have one I would recommend taking a look. It makes a huge difference.

Best,

Mark

[DavidF]

Good points Mark, I agree about the clamping to it. I have made an addon for when I am routing in the extension table that has the ability to clamp things to. I must say I like the fact that the original fence can be slid back for cross cutting to length with the mitre fence or the sliding table (I did get that and agree it's fantastic).

[Cuprousworks]

These are all good points. I've been pretty happy with my DeWalt tablesaw and fence, but I have noticed that it seems to creep a little when I secure it. Something in the orbital action must be slightly off, enough that it can move as much as 1/16" when I clench it.

I haven't seen much deflection in it, and I would like to test that on my fence. I'm having a hard time visualizing what extrusion you see movement in, could you help me understand?

Clamping is definitely a nice option, and I've seen quite a few jigs that ride along the Bies ridge, which would be a great feature. One fence face hasn't bothered me much yet, (and with the fence shifted so far to the right would you be able to use the other side now?) but a slick plastic face would be nice. My aluminum face was slightly abraded from a close encounter with a sander, so I stuck some of the UHM plastic tape on it, which seems to work.

In the end I think your conclusion is where I come down. The OEM is a serviceable fence, but a really cheap bies would be a worthwhile upgrade. If I should stumble across one of those $80 closeouts I would be a lot more likely to strike based on your explanations. Thanks!

Mike

[mburke911]

I never noticed my fence creep when I locked it down, if I had seen that it would have been more of a priority to replace it. That is just down right annoying. Anyway, I bet there is an adjustment you can use to stop it.

As for the facing deflection, when I clamp a stop block to the fence, close to the end (near the operator) for doing multiple crosscuts for example, I can visible see the OEM metal fence facing flex as I tighten down the clamp. Definitely not ideal.

While I can get the Biesemeyer to the left of my blade for a short 6" or so I don't really envision the need to cut on that side. Rather I wanted the ability to add a router plate to the extension table (or a larger table which I will probably be adding). Then I can use the left side of the fence for router cuts as well.

Mike, you might want to call around and see if any of your local stores have the still on clearance. Or visit the store and ask about the part number. If they don’t have ask them which stores do and road trip.

On a totally separate note, have any of you DeWalt owners looked at the 50" fence kit? You have to remove the left cast iron wing to install it. That makes no sense to me. I actually have the table and legs (no rails) but I haven't bother to install them because of that issue. The cast-iron is significantly more valuable, IMHO, than the OEM extension table. Does anyone have any thoughts on that? Anyone have the 50" table and have comments. I have considered adding it in place of the Biesemeyer extension table, but it too me so long to figure out how to attach it that I may be rethinking that option.

Mark

[DavidF]

Originally Posted by mburke911

I never noticed my fence creep when I locked it down, if I had seen that it would have been more of a priority to replace it. That is just down right annoying. Anyway, I bet there is an adjustment you can use to stop it.

As for the facing deflection, when I clamp a stop block to the fence, close to the end (near the operator) for doing multiple crosscuts for example, I can visible see the OEM metal fence facing flex as I tighten down the clamp. Definitely not ideal.

While I can get the Biesemeyer to the left of my blade for a short 6" or so I don't really envision the need to cut on that side. Rather I wanted the ability to add a router plate to the extension table (or a larger table which I will probably be adding). Then I can use the left side of the fence for router cuts as well.

Mike, you might want to call around and see if any of your local stores have the still on clearance. Or visit the store and ask about the part number. If they don’t have ask them which stores do and road trip.

On a totally separate note, have any of you DeWalt owners looked at the 50" fence kit? You have to remove the left cast iron wing to install it. That makes no sense to me. I actually have the table and legs (no rails) but I haven't bother to install them because of that issue. The cast-iron is significantly more valuable, IMHO, than the OEM extension table. Does anyone have any thoughts on that? Anyone have the 50" table and have comments. I have considered adding it in place of the Biesemeyer extension table, but it too me so long to figure out how to attach it that I may be rethinking that option.

Mark

Am I getting your lefts and rights mixed up? I have the 50" rail set with extension table and it goes on the Right side of the table and nothing has to be removed. When the sliding table is fitted then the Left hand wing must be removed. Also, on your comments about using the fence for the router do you mean you can use the opposite side of the fence that is usually used for ripping? in which case it would be on the left hand side of the router bit when you are standing at the front of the saw and that is no good for routing; the fence must be to the right of the bit - Am I picturing this all wrong?

[mburke911]

Woops! You are correct I meant the Right cast iron top. Sorry about that.


Really? Nothing had to be removed? Did you buy it with the 50" rails or buy them after? The directions show removal of the right top (pressed or cast depending on which one you have).

And once again your correct about the router. Guess I was a bit mixed up there. Thanks for mentioning it.


Mark

[DavidF]

Originally Posted by mburke911

Woops! You are correct I meant the Right cast iron top. Sorry about that.


Really? Nothing had to be removed? Did you buy it with the 50" rails or buy them after? The directions show removal of the right top (pressed or cast depending on which one you have).

And once again your correct about the router. Guess I was a bit mixed up there. Thanks for mentioning it.


Mark

Yes, I bought it with the rails so nothing to remove. I think the extension table, while not perfect is just as good as the pressed table, but not as good as a cast one. I put my router about 2/3 the way across the extension table and with the 50" rails can slide the original fence all the way to the right of the router and still use the scale on the front bar.

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/.../DSCF00481.JPG

This MDF fence fits over the original and includes dust extraction out the back.