Help with hand plane identification....

[Touchwood]

On the same topic, sort of...

I'm not much of a hand plane user, but I'm getting interested in it because of some awkward machining needed to true up my rocker headrests.

Someone gave me a Sears Craftsman plane years ago. The only markings I see on it are "Made in USA", and numbers in the casting reading "C-557B-0" and KX. It has a wood handle and the bed is about 9" long. Anyone know if this thing is worth tuning up? It's never been used.

At one time Freud sold hand planes and I have two of those..one with a bed about 22" long, the other about 13" long. They were on sale someplace and I thought they were such a bargain!!!!....nuff said. No markings other than Freud. They've never been used either.

Lastly, there's a little 7" long Stanley No.220.

Obviously there's a lot of knowledge and expertise on hand planes on our site. Comments gratefully received..

I probably should have posted this separately to not get in Alan's way, so maybe a PM response would be better.

Don

[froglips]

Don, you ask and we shall assist

I've copied your post from Alan's thread. Now we can dive right in and help you with your planes.

Jim

[froglips]

Always happy to see interest in hand planes!

A pic of the Craftsman might help. A lot of them were made by Millers Falls or Sargent. 9" sounds pretty much like a "Stanley #4" Smoothing Plane. It is a very common plane, used for fine operations (think 220 grit sandpaper).

Pics would help (don't we just love pics around here!).

Are the Freud planes wooden bodied? 22" is a Jointer (some say Try) plane (Stanley #7) and 13" is a Jack Plane (Stanley #5).

A Jack plane is a very coarse tool used to remove a lot of material quickly while introducing a certain degree of flatness.

A Jointer plane does finer work, and excels at flattening faces and edges.

The 220 is a Block plane. Very common, but a good worker. Block planes trim edges, take out bumps, chamfer, round over, trim dovetail pins, and more. Its shorter length allows it to follow curved surfaces.

I'd suggest reading Chris Schwarz Understanding Bench Planes http://popularwoodworking.com/articl...g_bench_planes article and Patrick Leach Blood & Gore (Definitive breakdown of Stanley planes by model number) http://www.supertool.com

Hope this helps.

Jim

[willarda]

The Stanley 220 block planes were made by the millions and other vendors have made similar ones. They do not have an adjustable mouth and the bed angle is standard (25 degrees). A block plane with an adjustable mouth and a low angle bed (12 degrees), or even a rabbet block plane with a low angle, is infinitely preferable. I wouild use the 220 for rough work, but if I was doing some finish planing, I would go with a low angle.

[Gofor]

Don:

As far as if the plane is "worth tuning up", that kind of depends on what shape it is in and how much time you want to invest. I have a couple $10 e-bay planes that took a bit of effort, but I use them quite a bit. I also spent $35 (with the exception of my #7 Bailey, the most I have spent on one) on a new Stanley adjustable mouth block plane at the borg. After four hours of fettling work, it has turned into a nice user plane.

However, not being sure what you really need to do on your rocker headrests, I can't make any recommendations. It is highly possible that you can do what you need with just some inexpensive card scrapers. I restored an old rocking chair last summer, and card scrapers were the tools I used most.

Are we talking straight edges or curved surfaces? Are you talking getting up close and personal with a spindle interface or smoothing the flat surfaces? Guess a little more info would help.

However, rockers aside, tuning up an old plane and getting it to work well is for some people a really rewarding experience, the translates into grabbing that hand tool more often than spending the time to set up the power tools.

Go

[Gofor]

Just saw your post of "Shaker on steroids". Magnificent!! If you did that without hand tools, you are definitely doing it the hard way in some of your operations!! I can see a low angle adjustable mouth block plane in your future, not to mention maybe a few contour planes that you could make yourself. I think some Krenov plane making basics would be a good investment.

Go

[Touchwood]

Thanks again, Jim

I took some pix last night of the planes. ..and some sharpening supplies (largely unused to date, but about to change).

My need for hand-planing right now is for the headrest when I'm building my rockers. The headrest is segmented and "coopered"..that's because the back leg attachment faces subtend an angle of 40 degrees. I usually have 5 blocks, 8" high, 4 or 5" wide and 2" thick. That means there will be 4 glue joints, each at 10 degrees to get to 40, so I do a 5 degree rip cut on all edges but the first and last. To glue these together, I glue on sacrificial clamping bars, glue two together, them three together and finally all five. I bandsaw off the bars..and now I need to cut the radius of the headrest front and back surfaces on the bandsaw. The glued up blocks must be absolutely square to the bandsaw table or bad things happen. To do this I run the backs of the glue-up against the jointer fence and square the bottoms of the blocks...but if there's any residual trim-off on the backs from the clamping bars, the bottoms wont be square and any tilt from front to back makes a big change in dimension from top to bottom with an 8 or 9" distance from bandsaw top guides to table. If that happens, all subsequent operations to fit the ends of the headrest to the back leg joints become a nightmare. (whew!).

I've tried using a spokeshave or sanding off that residual but the best way,I believe, would be to use a plane.With the above in mind here are the planes I have to work with:

First the Craftsman and the Stanley 220.



The 22" Freud with #7 marked on the tail


The other Freud



..and two little Lie-Nielsens



The only plane I've used much is the little Lie-Nielsen scraper.

I have a bunch of sharpening stuff..ashamed to say the granite block has never been out of the box.
I have six kids, now all grown up (and almost twice that many grand-kids)..so Christmas and birthdays usually result in tools or woodworking books. My collection of Bridge City tools ought to be out where I can use them..but they're too pretty to beat up. Not complaining though...






So..I really have no excuses here. Time to get sharpening and using. Any suggestions gratefully accepted

Thanks,

Don

Originally Posted by froglips

Always happy to see interest in hand planes!



A pic of the Craftsman might help. A lot of them were made by Millers Falls or Sargent. 9" sounds pretty much like a "Stanley #4" Smoothing Plane. It is a very common plane, used for fine operations (think 220 grit sandpaper).

Pics would help (don't we just love pics around here!).

Are the Freud planes wooden bodied? 22" is a Jointer (some say Try) plane (Stanley #7) and 13" is a Jack Plane (Stanley #5).

A Jack plane is a very coarse tool used to remove a lot of material quickly while introducing a certain degree of flatness.

A Jointer plane does finer work, and excels at flattening faces and edges.

The 220 is a Block plane. Very common, but a good worker. Block planes trim edges, take out bumps, chamfer, round over, trim dovetail pins, and more. Its shorter length allows it to follow curved surfaces.

I'd suggest reading Chris Schwarz Understanding Bench Planes http://popularwoodworking.com/articl...g_bench_planes article and Patrick Leach Blood & Gore (Definitive breakdown of Stanley planes by model number) http://www.supertool.com

Hope this helps.

Jim

[Touchwood]

Thanks Mark,

I think square mortises would look better with the wedged tenons, but that's hard to do with a router. I have a hollow chisel mortiser but it never seems to get repeatable results..pretty crude for furniture joints that show. I've read two Krenov books but nothing on making planes.

Don

Originally Posted by Gofor

Just saw your post of "Shaker on steroids". Magnificent!! If you did that without hand tools, you are definitely doing it the hard way in some of your operations!! I can see a low angle adjustable mouth block plane in your future, not to mention maybe a few contour planes that you could make yourself. I think some Krenov plane making basics would be a good investment.

Go

[Gofor]

For the need you described, you already have planes that will work. Depending on the cross-sectional size of the clamp blocks, the little 220 is probably the best, but if 1 1/2 square, then you may be able to use the Craftsman. (willarda's recommendation is still the best if you can afford another tool). The iron on the plane will need to be razor sharp, and if you use the #4, you may want to adjust the mouth in pretty close to the iron.

The larger planes, if sharp and set to a thin cut, may work by crossing all the blocks at once. I have never tried that, but it may end up with a truer edge on all the blocks, as the longer plane will be resting on more blocks. I have used my larger planes to trim down through-tenon ends, and they work well if set to a very thin cut and used with light pressure.

Rather than screw up a good rocker on a trial and error shot, you may want to get up with someone who can show you how to set up the plane for what you want. As for sharpening, you already have the Mark II Veritas and the granite block, so even if you don't want to mess with the water stones, you just need some wet/dry paper to get the irons in shape.

The pictures of your planes had me drooling. However, just because they look brand new, they may still need some fettling to get them to do well for fine furniture work. Hopefully you can find an experienced planes man close to help, or attend a class.

Go

[froglips]

Where is the rust? Old panes without rust? That is quite rare!

Those are some great looking planes. All worth the effort to tune up.

The Craftsman looks like a good one. Those colors remind me of Sargent. A good one to keep and use.

I'd throw out an odd comment, set the Freud planes aside, oil or wax them and protect them from rust. While they don't have a strong collectible value today, they are unique.

Jack planes are not special. Nor do they need to be highly precise. There are tons of #5 planes out there you can get for $15 or less. Most plane folk don't flatten the sole of a #5 unless it is shaped like a banana. Even then, its just a little effort to get it flat enough.

If the Freud Jointer sole isn't flat, which is likely, its a ton of work to make it flat.

Jim

[Touchwood]

Jim,

Thanks for the help...you too Mark,

Question: How flat is flat. I took a feeler gage to the #7 and found from the handle forward I could just get a 5 mil feeler under the sole. Different story when looking from tail to front end..more like 15 mils under the handle...still 5 mils or less everywhere else.







I was only able to get a 4 mil feeler under the handle of the Craftsman...no slide-in at 3 mils anywhere else.



The report that came with the granite block showed laser meaurements of the surface profile..max deviation 1.8 microns. Their spec is .0001 inch flatness, so anything less than 2.5 microns meets spec. It's pretty flat!

Don

Originally Posted by froglips

Where is the rust? Old panes without rust? That is quite rare!

Those are some great looking planes. All worth the effort to tune up.

The Craftsman looks like a good one. Those colors remind me of Sargent. A good one to keep and use.

I'd throw out an odd comment, set the Freud planes aside, oil or wax them and protect them from rust. While they don't have a strong collectible value today, they are unique.

Jack planes are not special. Nor do they need to be highly precise. There are tons of #5 planes out there you can get for $15 or less. Most plane folk don't flatten the sole of a #5 unless it is shaped like a banana. Even then, its just a little effort to get it flat enough.

If the Freud Jointer sole isn't flat, which is likely, its a ton of work to make it flat.

Jim