Veneering tips???

[DaveO]

I am planning to do some veneering this weekend..if my project progresses to that stage. I have heard and read here about a method where yellow PVA glue is used, allowed to dry and then reactivated by the heat of an iron. Anyone one have more information on that technique. I have used PVA glue on small veneer jobs where I was able to get good clamp pressure all over the piece. I have also tried contact adhesive, and wasn't thrilled with the results. So I am looking for a new method, I don't have a vacuum press or plan to do enough veneer work to justify the expense. The pieces that I am planning to veneer are going to be approx. 6"x10" and I am planning on using a non-backed quilted maple veneer. I will use a softener before hand to get the sheets flat, and there will be no seaming involved.
Thanks in advance for all the helpful advice, I know ya'll will provide.

Dave

[D L Ames]

Dave, I used the PVA technique on the first pistol display box I made. The piece I was veneering was about the same size (6 x as what you are working with. I had to veneer both sides of the panel and the PVA reactivation technique worked well for me. The veneer I was using was a Carpathian elm burl and was very wavy and had to be softened and flattened and completely dry before I applied the glue. Let your glue set up completely and then use the hot iron to reactivate the glue and press the veneer in place. You might want to do a practice shot if you have a little scrap available (funny, me asking the King-o-Scrap if he has any scrap. )

I would recommend using a piece of veneer slightly wider and longer than your finished size if at all possible so you can trim it to size after gluing. The substrate I used was also a bit larger than the veneer.

A good technique for finding the ideal area (6" x 10") to cut out from the larger veneered panel is to take a piece of paper and cut out a 6" x 10" opening like the matting for a photo. Then place this mat over your panel and move it around until you get the best looking area. Mark it with chalk or a pencil lightly and then trim your panel to the final size. Your first cut may have to be at an angle but after that everything will be cut 90° to your first cut. I hope this made some sense.

D L

[DaveO]

Hey DL, thanks for the info. When you say let the glue set up completely, are you talking over night, a few hours or a half hour? The problem I had with contact cement was that the instructions said to let it dry, but not too much??? I didn't let it dry enough and it continued to gas off under the veneer. Also did you need to apply any clamp pressure after you re-activated the glue, or did it set up as it cooled?
Dave

[D L Ames]

If I remember correctly I let it dry for a few hours but not as long as over night. I am sure you could let it set over night without any problems if you wanted to. I didn't have to use any clamps on it at all. I just keep going over it with the iron until the glue stated to reactivate and then take hold as it cooled.

Don't forget, if you are not going to use your veneered panel right away it is a good idea to store it under a flat platen with some weight on it. Also, it is recommended that you veneer both sides of a panel to decrease the likelihood of warping. If the bottom side of your panel is not going to be visible then they make a cheaper product that you can veneer the back side with. I will try to find an link to what that other cheaper product is FYI in case you need it.

D L

[mshel]

Dave,

Here is a link you might want:

http://www.oakwoodveneer.com/tips/ironon.html

Mike

[DaveO]

Thanks again DL, and Mshel that is a great article. I plan to do both sides with the quilted maple veneer, 'cause both sides will be visible when the doors or lid are opened. I feel much more confident with this method than with the contact cement method. Thanks again. Dave

[D L Ames]

Mike, that is an excellent link and lists a few things I failed to mention like using the cloth between the iron and veneer.

Dave, the part where they discuss applying the glue evenly at 6-8 mils thick is not as hard as it sounds. I found a good tip on the back of FW' protective mailing cover a few months ago. You take an old 18-tpi hacksaw blade and hammer the teeth from both sides to remove the set, then use double face tape to attach the blade to a thin piece of scrap to form a handle. Pour a puddle of glue in the center of your panel then hold the blade at a 60° angle and spread the glue until the entire panel is covered. I can scan this and send it to you but I will need you to PM your email address to me if you want it.

D L

[DaveO]

Thanks DL, but your description make perfect sense to me. Just like a notched trowel for spreading thinset when laying tile, but much smaller. Is a 18 tpi hack saw blade the norm. or would I have to find one. I have many old hack saw blades, but don't know the tooth count. I guess I could measure and count, but I am lazy and you're very quick with great answers and good info. Thanks again. Dave

[D L Ames]

Dave, I think 18 to 24-tpi is pretty much standard. I was fortunate enough to have one laying around that was new so I knew I had the right tpi. I don't think you will go too wrong with which ever one you use.

D L

[Steve D]

Dave,

I did the speakers below with the technique you are talking about and the advice you have so far has been right on target. I would recommend Titebond II as your glue. Not based on my expertise but I am fortunate that I am trying to develop Franklin (the makers of Titebond) as a client and talked to one of their VP's about this process. He put me in touch with the chemist that developed Titebond and several others and II was his recommendation. The other tips I would offer: Use veneer tape on any imperfections and across the ends of the panels. That is where you will likely get splits. You only want to heat enough to activate the glue, too little, no bond, too much and the heat will cause cracks. I make it sound worse than it is but err on the side of too little. You can go back over it with the iron if it didn't bond. I practiced first and then did the bottoms of the speakers. After that I was pretty comfortable and everything went well.

[woodguy1975]

This was a good thread. One thing that I thought should be throwin into the the thread is if you have seams and thicker veneers the PVA glue method is not recommended. PVA glue will creep and allow the seams to open up with expansion and contraction of the veneer. You really want to use plastic resin glue for such applications. If you make your own veneer you want the final thickness to be no more than 3/32 of an inch thick or expansion and contraction will cause issues. Good Luck Dave. Looking forward to seeing some pics. Steve, sweet speakers. What setting on your irons are you using for heat activating the Tightbond. I've done it before, but don't remember the setting. John