House of cabinets - Page 2

House of cabinets · 11-04-2008, 10:58 AM

The house of cabinet project continues....... And continues....

I have the majority of the doors finished and installed and have a lot of the drawers made. Thanks to Doug Robinson coming over and helping to work on drawers, but that will be another post as I didn't get all my pictures uploaded last night.

Here are a few work in progress pictures.

Sink area

Lower cabinets by stove

Upper cabinets by stove

Over the fridge

This isn't all of them, just the pics I uploaded last night.

Not shown
2 - 5 ft wide 8 foot tall entertainment center/bookcase units
2 - 72 inch plus vanities
1 - 7 ft cabinet over the washer/dryer
2 - 4 ft wide 8 foot tall bookcase/cabinet units

This has been a BIG project. Too big. In total there are 38 raised panel doors, 42 drawers 8 of which are pull out trays in the cabinets, and 40 drawer fronts 4 of which are false fronts.

Anyone care to guess what the total cost (actual cost) of this is? And, what the total cost from Home Depot would have been?

I have made and finished all the drawer boxes. I still have to install slides on 15 of the drawers, and tonight I am going to start making the 40 drawer fronts. Then I have around 40 shelves to make, 14 ft of formica to install in the office, and a LOT of crown molding to put up.....

I have also started a lessons learned about building cabinets like this. Any comments/suggestions anyone wants to add would be appreciated as I may be confused on some of this as I have been doing it too long.

Make your boxes small. Don' t build kitchen cabinet carcasses with over 2 doors in an assembly.

Make sure you know and understand your hinges. Euro hinges are SWEET, but know your overlay, and know the stlye of hinges and how much reveal, bore distance, etc up front.

Make a jig to drill all your cabinet door handles. Make sure it has a left side and right side.

Do not drill door handles until the doors are installed.

If you are going to make drawers out of plywood, only use baltic birch. Accept nothing less as it is a ROYAL pain. DAMHIKT

If you can, use the 32 mm drilling system. It makes hinges, drawers, etc much easier. It takes a little time to learn, but the benefits are well worth it.

Get your drawer slides up front and ensure whoever is getting it knows what they want. I ordered all the drawer slides up front to hear it would be nice to have the soft close/automatic close and told him it was too late. Then he went into sticker shock when I told him how much those types of slides cost.

Personally, I prefer full extension ball bearing slides. Hidden is the best, but side mount will do when cost is an issue. Mail order them and shop around. Prices vary from as much as $8 a pair to $25 a pair depending on where you get them.

If you can, build your toe kick assemblies separately. Makes it easier in figuring the stuff, and makes it easier in drilling holes for adjustable shelves.

I used pocket holes to put all the boxes together. Dadoes and grooves in building the boxes are nice, but overkill in my opinion.

Allow 1 inch on the sides, backs, etc for crooked walls. So far on this project I have had walls up to 7/8" off over a 42" distance.

Make and install all of your spacers (sides of cabinets) on your cabinet/boxes before finishing whenever possible. That way you don't lose them and know what you have and what you need.

Inset your backs by 1". Walls are crooked, 2x4's are bowed, and you need the space. The loss of depth in the cabinet is unfortunate, but it is not your fault that whoever built the place used crooked lumber.

Screw and use no glue on your spacers so you can remove them if you need to. Look at the picture of the cabinets above the stove and the cabinet to the left and you can see the bottom piece isn't there. The wall was so crooked (7/8" off over 42") that I didn't allow enough for that piece and have had to remake it. I only allowed 3/4" for scribing on this one. I was trying to maximize cabinet space and paid the penalty. The loss for spacers is well worth not having to remake the stuff and once the cabinets are in you forget about what you lose.

Get a good compass and use it to scribe your spacers. Get one that uses a pencil not lead. The accuscribe is VERY nice as it hugs walls well and has a built in pencil sharpener.

Sharpen your hand planes and use them to help trim your spacers. A belt sander works, and so does a jig saw, but I find I get cleaner lines with a block plane.

Lets see..... There is more, I have just reached an impasse. I need to key in all the opening sizes and get my drawer fronts figured out now. All 40 of them.......

merrill77 · 11-04-2008, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Bas

And thanks for the lessons learned, the #1 item I'm taking away from this is - DON'T BUILD YOUR OWN KITCHEN CABINETS

I've been pondering cabinet replacement in our house (kitchen and 3 bathrooms). Our house is about 30 years old. One possibility is to reface, rather than rebuild. I expect that will involve building new drawer fronts and doors and re-using the existing cabinets and drawer boxes. I've already re-mounted one drawer with a newer style slide as an experiment (when the old slide broke) -- that worked well. We have discussed (wife and I) doing one of the bathrooms first - as an experiment. I'm not sure what will be the most work - prepping the existing cabinets for veneer, veneering or building drawer fronts and doors. Or some other unexpected disaster :>

cpowell · 11-04-2008, 10:48 PM

Well, I tip my hat to you for taking on and completing (nearly, it seems) such a big project. Your finish looks fantastic - good for a thumbs up!

No applause until it's done though.

Thanks for the tips.

Chuck

flatheadfisher · 11-04-2008, 11:00 PM

That is a huge job and one will done! I won't complain too much now about my wife wanting me to tackle new cabinets in our tiny, tiny little bathroom!

Thanks for the list, I know that will really help me out when I start the cabinets.

Travis Porter · 11-05-2008, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by merrill77

I've been pondering cabinet replacement in our house (kitchen and 3 bathrooms). Our house is about 30 years old. One possibility is to reface, rather than rebuild. I expect that will involve building new drawer fronts and doors and re-using the existing cabinets and drawer boxes. I've already re-mounted one drawer with a newer style slide as an experiment (when the old slide broke) -- that worked well. We have discussed (wife and I) doing one of the bathrooms first - as an experiment. I'm not sure what will be the most work - prepping the existing cabinets for veneer, veneering or building drawer fronts and doors. Or some other unexpected disaster :>

I'm not sure which would be easier. I would think the refacing would be more tedious though.

JimD · 11-05-2008, 08:40 AM

Looks really nice!

I did a whole kitchen for our last house out of oak veneer plywood with solid oak raised panel doors. It was a big job but I think our kitchen was smaller than you illustrate. I did one cabinet at a time where it fit the layout. I then installed it and moved on to the next one. Fortunately LOML was patient. When I did a long run where the sink was she got a little tired of the mess but that was only about a week until she was back to normal. I screwed and glued the boxes together and then plugged the screw hole. They were on the top and bottom so they were not very noticable. LOML was happy.

Jim

Travis Porter · 11-05-2008, 09:48 AM

I don't want anyone thinking I have been sloughing off so here are pics of the rest of the units.

Unit to the left of the fireplace. On this one is a screwup. Somehow, I made a door the wrong size here. I think it is 1 inch too large. Out of 38 doors I would say that isn't too bad. Notice how the wood top is inset into this opening. What a royal PITA to try to fit. In order to get it to fit tightly, it required that i tear up the wall some (walls aren't square

). He wasn't real happy about that

, but you know, I have to do what I have to do.

I don't know any other way to get a top like that to fit unless you make it in two pieces. If anyone does, please share as I am listening.

Unit to the right of the fireplace

Left side office units. The four large drawer openings are file drawers.

Right side office units.

Center office section. There will be 1 drawer on each side of the units and the center section will be a false front and a computer keyboard slide and tray goes here. As you can see, I haven't installed the formica yet. I am hoping he goes out and installs it on his own without me as I don't really enjoy working with formica, but I am doubtful that happens.
[IMG]http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1158/medium/100_1106.JPG
[/IMG]

Master bath vanities. I asked him up front if he wanted to put a make area in here. For that matter, I asked him 3 times and never got a response so I went ahead and made a LARGE unit with all drawers. This unit is 95" long. After I had the unit built, I found out that his wife did want a make up area. Oh well, too little, too late. I am putting tilt out fronts with the little compartments on the kitchen sink and all the vanities. Makes a good place to store miscellaneous stuff.

The other vanity unit. I made all the doors the exact same sizes on the vanities and the drawers the same height so that did make for a bit easier construction and figuring.

Next up, drawers....

sapwood · 11-05-2008, 02:58 PM

Overwhelming in scale and quality

I'm more than impressed, Travis

Roger

NCPete · 11-06-2008, 08:56 AM

I second Roger's comment! That looks like a great job! This guy owes you a lifetime subscription to the beer of the month club, or perhaps the wine of the month club..... No, both!

Travis Porter · 11-06-2008, 11:06 AM

Thanks to all for the positive comments.

One correction. It looks like the door that I thought I made wrong isn't. He didn't install them right and got them mixed up in the family room.

As for how much did this cost, now that all the pictures are loaded to show all of the units the actual cost (no mark up, no labor, no electricity) is right at $10,000.

Home Depot's price for FLAT panel doors, not raised panel doors was right around $25,000.

Alan in Little Washington · 11-06-2008, 11:35 AM

Wow. What an amazing project and a superb job.

On the cabinet left of the fireplace- one suggestion (I have not tried this) is to make the upper unit slightly narrower (1/4") and when you make it, don't attach the faceframe, so it slides easily in place. Then you can scribe and apply the faceframe after the cabinet is set.

One method I've seen guys use to trim the faceframe is similar to what some countertop guys do- make a template of the opening. Use thin ply templates scribed to each wall. Hold them the proper distance apart with ply stretchers attached to the wall templates with some hot melt glue or brads. Lay the template over your face frame to mark it for trimming.

Travis Porter · 11-06-2008, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Alan in Little Washington

Wow. What an amazing project and a superb job.

On the cabinet left of the fireplace- one suggestion (I have not tried this) is to make the upper unit slightly narrower (1/4") and when you make it, don't attach the faceframe, so it slides easily in place. Then you can scribe and apply the faceframe after the cabinet is set.

One method I've seen guys use to trim the faceframe is similar to what some countertop guys do- make a template of the opening. Use thin ply templates scribed to each wall. Hold them the proper distance apart with ply stretchers attached to the wall templates with some hot melt glue or brads. Lay the template over your face frame to mark it for trimming.

Actually, I did do that on the face frame or fitting of the cabinet. The units are actually two inches smaller than the opening so I made filler strips to go on each side. I am glad I did as the wall has a 1/2" bow on the left side.

Where I am stuck on a better way is the top, the area between the cabinet and the open bookcase. In this case it is plywood with a trim piece, but a lot of times it is formica or solid surface. How do you perfectly fit a countertop that is enclosed on 3 sides? To get it the right size I made a template that was offset 1", and it worked. Getting it in place was a NIGHTMARE and I tore up the wall on the left side as I tilted it and then forced it down. It wouldn't go straight in as the walls were not square (greater than 90 degrees in this instance).

Gofor · 11-06-2008, 07:51 PM

I know this is a day late and a dollar short, but if you have any more: In the future, bevel the cut on the wall side by 3 1/2 to 7 degrees. It allows you to set the piece flat like closing a door. The longer the panel, the less bevel needed. However, if you have warped walls on two sides, one of them may get scraped.

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