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01-16-2006, 10:31 PM
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#1 |
Name: Monty City: Hickory State: NC County: Catawba Join Date: Jul 2005 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 0.70 over 30 days |
Glue creep: What is it? Why does it happen? How do you prevent it?
Reason I ask is: I've noticed that some (not all) of my projects have developed a little tiny ridge in the glue lines over time (weeks to months). Feels like glue squeeze-out, but on a microscopic level, if you can imagine that. It's very easy to knock off with #0000 steel wool, and the jointery is still smooth/level, so I don't think it's all due to wood movement. I don't want to have to go around buffing all my projects after I've finished them!!! 
I've been using either plane yellow wood glue or titebond II for my projects. |  
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01-16-2006, 10:35 PM
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#2 |
Name: D L Ames City: Fayetteville State: NC County: Cumberland Join Date: Oct 2005 Age: 50 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 0.00 over 30 days |
Interesting.......I don't believe I have ever experienced something like that before. Does it occur with any particular wood species or all species that you have used? Is your glue beyond the recommended shelf-life?
D L
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01-16-2006, 10:38 PM
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#3 |
Name: Monty City: Hickory State: NC County: Catawba Join Date: Jul 2005 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 0.70 over 30 days |
I don't buy large quantities of glue, so the stuff I have generally is pretty fresh - like less than a year old max. I have heard people talk about "glue creep", but I'm not sure if this is what it means. | |
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01-16-2006, 10:46 PM
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#4 |
Name: D L Ames City: Fayetteville State: NC County: Cumberland Join Date: Oct 2005 Age: 50 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 0.00 over 30 days |
Well, I am certainly stumped by it. Hopefully someone will know what is causing it.
Does it only happen once per joint or does it keep repeating itself every couple of months?
D L
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. George Orwell (1903 - 1950) | |
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01-16-2006, 10:58 PM
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#5 |
Name: Mike City: State: County: Join Date: Aug 2005 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 0.00 over 30 days |
Monty, sounds like the classic symptoms of glue creep. Sometimes it is more pronounced depending on what the wood is that you use in your glue ups. For instance if you join a flat sawn edge to another board that is more or less quartersawn or rift sawn the creep will be more pronounced. Look at the ends of your boards and try to match the annular growth rings so that similar ring patterns are adjoining one another. It will help but not completely eliminate your problem. I have no conclusive evidence but I think that Titebond II is more susceptible to creep than plain old Titebond. I am sure others will straighten me out. | |
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01-16-2006, 10:59 PM
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#6 | | Webmaster
Director
Name: DaveO City: Clayton State: NC County: Johnston Join Date: Aug 2005 Age: 38 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 7.00 over 30 days |
I have had similar situations occur with several panel glue ups. I have a Mahogany table top that was dead smooth and now you can run your hand across it and feel where the joints are. Also a similar condition on some Oak tables. I am the only one who notices it, but I knew what it felt like after I finished it. I don't know what caused it. But I do know how it can be prevented. Plastic resin glues will never creep, but they are expensive, messy and not readily available at Lowes 
I would also like an explaination as to the reasons behind the creep.
Dave 
__________________   Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile
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01-16-2006, 11:05 PM
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#7 |
Name: John Richards City: Hickory State: NC County: Burke Join Date: Oct 2005 Age: 33 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 6.07 over 30 days |
Like Big Mike said it is from a slightly different rate of expansion-contraction between the boards. Yellow glues don't have a ridge enough bond to prevent the boards from moving independently so you feel the glue line. At certain points in the year it will be more pronounced or less pronouced.
Dave O is right PRG is the way to go. I be using that on my dovetails of my chest to prevent this from occuring.
Good Luck,
John
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01-16-2006, 11:06 PM
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#8 |
Name: Monty City: Hickory State: NC County: Catawba Join Date: Jul 2005 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 0.70 over 30 days |
Yea DL, it just happens once or twice. Like on that mallet I turned a couple of weeks ago... a hair line emerged on the joints that I buffed back out, now there are a couple of areas that it's happening again, but not as much. I suspect that probably 2-3 buffings will take care of it, but I don't want to have to do this to a project that has a fine finish on it!!! (as if I'm capable of a fine finish!)  | |
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01-16-2006, 11:38 PM
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#9 | | Member
Name: Steve DeWeese City: Horse Shoe State: NC County: Henderson Join Date: Oct 2005 Age: 44 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 0.23 over 30 days |
From personal experience Titebond II is more susceptible than regular Titebond. I only use II on projects that will have direct moisture exposure and for iron applied veneer. | |
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01-17-2006, 12:34 AM
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#10 |
Name: William City: Cedar Mountain State: NC County: Transylvania Join Date: Nov 2005 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 0.00 over 30 days |
From my experience, tightbond 3 will expand somewhat quickly after curing, then not move much. | |
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01-17-2006, 01:00 AM
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#11 | | Moderator
Name: Peter Davio City: Hope Mills State: NC County: Cumberland Join Date: Dec 2005 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 7.00 over 30 days |
I thought that was the guy they couldn't get out of the adhesives aisle in Lowe's  | |
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01-17-2006, 09:42 AM
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#12 | | President
Treasurer
Name: Steve City: Apex State: NC County: Wake Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 64 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 7.00 over 30 days |
__________________
Steve Coles
"If you can't say something nice, at least make it funny" 
Last edited by SteveColes; 01-17-2006 at 11:05 AM.
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01-17-2006, 10:08 AM
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#13 |
Name: David City: Pittsboro State: NC County: Chatham Join Date: Oct 2005 Age: 51 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 3.73 over 30 days |
I agree with everybody on the reason, but what to do? Maybe some of the cause is that the join was not perfect, maybe excessive clamp pressure was required to close it and when that pressure was released the microscopic gap with an elastic glue in it is causing the problem. How about too thick a glue line; again possibly caused by a less than perfectly flat edge join - sorry Steve not running down your jointing skills 
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David
"There is no trouble so great or grave that cannot be much diminished by a nice cup of tea" Bernard-Paul Heroux | |
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01-17-2006, 11:07 AM
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#14 | | President
Treasurer
Name: Steve City: Apex State: NC County: Wake Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 64 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 7.00 over 30 days |
Originally Posted by DavidF ....sorry Steve not running down your jointing skills Wasn't me, I have no skills to run down
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"If you can't say something nice, at least make it funny" | |
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01-17-2006, 12:13 PM
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#15 |
Name: Monty City: Hickory State: NC County: Catawba Join Date: Jul 2005 Avg Visit Freq/Week
= 0.70 over 30 days |
Joints are all machined flat with the planer prior to glueup. Glue was applied to both sides, spread very thin (just to wet the whole surface). Also happened on a dovetailed joint, where the fit was perfect (honest!) and the glue was only on one side.
Wondering about too much pressure on the glue line - dovetail maybe too tight (it WAS snug), mallet handle trapped in the middle of 4 pieces of rosewood...  What do ya'll think? | |
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