Cyclone Talk, Again

[WoodWrangler]

For the past 5 years I've been running a Jet 1100 dust collector in my hobby shop, and in that time I've tossed around "when" I'm going to upgrade to a cyclone system with better fine dust collection. Well, I'm back at it again ...

Cyclone talk has become similar to a religious, or political, argument. I'm fully aware that people stand on different sides of the fence, BUT I still want to hear it all again.

What I do know is that (1) fine dust collection is a must, (2) I want a system that will last me many years, (3) I'm not looking for a new project in dust collection, but rather a quick assembly, (4) 3HP minimum, and (5) I'm EXTREMELY tight on space -- but somehow always seem to squeeze it in.

After my initial research, I'm pretty much down to these ... HOWEVER I'm open to suggestions.

• Oneida Super Dust Gorilla System (5HP, or 3HP)
  http://www.oneida-air.com/gorilla_5hp.php
  
  
• Oneida Portable High Efficiency Cyclone Collector - XXP030100
  http://www.oneida-air.com/portable_3hp.php
  
  
• JDS 3 HP Cyclone 3100
  http://www.jdstools.com/index.asp?Pa...TS&Category=27
  

THOUGHTS? OPINIONS? BELIEFS? FACTS? OTHERS?

[WoodWrangler]

Originally Posted by PeteM

How about building an enclosure on the side of the garage and putting the entire unit out there?
Much quieter and won't take up any valuable floor space?
Just thinking . . .

p

You gonna help build it?

[thrytis]

Do you have any gas appliances such as a water heater in your garage? If so, you'll want to account for that if you plan to vent outside.

[Trog777]

I vent outside, no filters. I didn't want to cut a hole in the side of my garage up high, so I built a chute down the wall about 12" square and it vents outside behind the heat pump which is for the rooms above my shop. I covered the opening with wire mesh to keep the varmints out. I live in a neighborhood, but the houses aren't stacked on top of each other. 1-3 acre lots. When I first fired it up I thought it was probably quiet enough, but as added insurance, I took the chute apart and lined it with eggshell foam. BIG difference. Now I KNOW it doesn't bother anyone.

I have 10 ft ceilings and I mounted it as high as I could. I use a 55gal fiber drum as the collector and the cyclone is high enough that the drum rests on a platform which has 5" casters. Makes emptying it a breeze.

The unit itself is in a separate room with the air compressor (with drain also piped outside via copper tubing and a ball valve. One of my better ideas), obligatory refrigerator and misc tool storage. I can shut the door if I want, but I don't usually bother.

There is another room which in my more able bodied days was used as an automotive paint booth, now turned lawn equipment storage/finishing room. It has a couple of vent fans low on the outside wall and filters high on the opposite inside (shop) wall. The return air is sucked back through the fans (and filters if the connecting door is closed. Which in winter, for heating purposes, usually is.) Midwinter, it CAN rapidly cool you off rather rapidly if working for any length of time at the Sliding Compund Miter Saw station which happens to sit right smack under the filters. (NOT one of my better ideas) For most of the year it's fine though. I've heard a radiant heater is the fix for the heat issue. Heat surfaces, not the air.

2 of those Wynn 9L300BL Filters are around $250.oo including shipping.

The Clearvue didn't take long to assemble. A Saturday afternoon job. The only hard part is getting that heavy-a$$ motor up there. I screwed a large eyebolt into the side of a ceiling joist and used it as a makeshift pulley. Not perfect, but it worked. Running the ductwork is "a whole nuther adventure." I feel like there is a CEO somewhere that purchased his wife a new fur coat after I got through buying all those %&^#&#&!!! PVC fittings.

[McRabbet]

2 of those Wynn 9L300BL Filters are around $250.oo including shipping.

The current price on the Wynn Environmental website is $79.00 each, plus shipping.

[Trog777]

Originally Posted by McRabbet

The current price on the Wynn Environmental website is $79.00 each, plus shipping.

Was going by this.

(2) Wynn 9L300BL Filters for any of the above Combo Units

Filters will be drop shipped from Wynn. Please note that we do not get tracking numbers for the filters.

Click here for specs on these filters

(2) 9L300BL filters - 180 + 70.00 S&H

Best to go through Wynn direct I guess. Still be 200 inc shipping though.

[Travis Porter]

You guys can talk about only getting a teaspoon of dust in your filter all you want. I will tell you that it is WORTHLESS how good of a cyclone that you have if you forget to check the dust bin and slam pack the filter full of wood shavings.

DAMHIKT.

OK, it has happened to me once.

It did occur a second time.

Well, it has actually happened 3 times.

4, only 4 times. I now have a dust sensor to tell me when it is full.

But I haven't had a chance to install it yet.

I also kind of messed up my filter the last time....

[BillPappas]

I have the 3HP Super Gorilla and have been very satisfied....I installed it in 2005. It is mounted up on the wall and most machines are connected at all times. I keep rolling machines over by the Gorilla, the way it is positioned on the wall allows me to roll my router table under the filter and slip my bandsaw into the space between the filter and the cyclone body. I had Oneida draw up the piping requirements and they did a good job laying out the plan and sending the parts needed.

Regards,

Bill

[Travis Porter]

Bill, did you get the bag thingy for your SDG? If so, how do you like it?

[BillPappas]

Yes, I did get the bag thing and it seems to work fine....it has not sucked a bag into the cyclone yet! I use contractors bags from Home Depot or Lowes.

Regards,

Bill

[Alan in Little Washington]

Has anyone noticed I stayed out of this thread for a LOOOONG time?

I think everything has been covered, but would like to dispel one misconception regarding discharging DC air outside. Unless you leave your DC on the entire time you are in the shop, or at least for long periods, discharging outside won't have as big impact on temp as you might think, even with a 100% turnover of the air mass. What you say?!?!?!?

The reason, air stores little of the BTUs. It is actually the mass of your shop- walls, ceilings, machines, benches, and floors, especially concrete walls or floors, that store and maintain heat or lack of it. If you change out the air, the new air quickly warms or cools to the temp of your shop mass. A prime example- a fridge or freezer- when you open an upright unit the cold air is replaced by room temp air. Close the door, and re-open it a minute or two later. Nothing defrosts, or even warms up and the inside air is as cold as the first batch that spilled out.

The one item that can be impacted is the humidity of an air conditioned shop.

[scsmith42]

Jeremy, lots of good advice thus far. Here is my 2 cents.

First off, I have three difference DC systems. A Festool, an 3 hp Oneida SDG, and the big 25 hp system. The Festool is a really great system with their hand tools, but would not work at all with a jointer or a planer.

When making my decision re the cyclone, I checked into the major brands and Oneida pretty much had the best overall reputation for engineering and reliability. They do not "over-market" their products; if anything they are over-built and under-sold.

All of my cabinet equipment, as well as the 37" WBS is plumbed into the 3 hp Oneida. The only reason that I bought the big system was to evacuate the jointer-planer, as it creates a plethora of shavings. I can't imagine that you would need a 5 hp Oneida...

There are a lot of folks that really like the clear vue products; in my case I was not interested in another project. If you feel like saving some $ and making your own, then the Clearvue is the best way to go, IMO.

Re location - keep three things in mind, in order of priority.

1 - DC systems are LOUD. Installing in a closet or separate room is desireable. Yes, your equipment makes noise, but not as much as the cyclone.

2 - They have to be EMPTIED frequently, especially when you are planing or jointing, and this can be a real PITA. Thus, locate them someplace where you can easily remove and dispose of the shavings. IE - close to a door.

3 - If you locate them outside, you will suck a lot of your "conditioned" air out of the shop. Let's say that your shop footprint is 20' x 30' x 8' tall. That's 4,800 cubic feet of air inside the shop. An Oneida 3 hp Super Dust Gorilla would evacuate all of that air in about 2 - 3 minutes; not a good thing if your shop is cool and dry on a muggy August day.

4- you will spill some shavings and dust when you dump the drums. You will want an easy way to clean around the cyclone to reduce fire risk.

Having been to your shop, I would suggest the following:

1 - Build a closet on the outside of the building to house the system and the drum. Be sure that you have good access to it from the outside. This will allow you easy access for dust removal w/o having to haul the stuff through your shop, yet get the noise and bulk out of your shop. Make the closet large enough to house your air compressor too!

2 - Install the discharge filter INSIDE the shop, so that your conditioned air is returned inside.

3 - Install an alarm that will alert you inside the shop when the drum is full. Don Patterson and Rob have both posted designs for alarms.

In your neighborhood, I would not direct discharge outside, as it can cause a real mess and also some cranky neighbor may turn you in for a violation of the air quality rules.

Hope this helps.

Scott

[ashley_phil]

Originally Posted by scsmith42

In your neighborhood, I would not direct discharge outside, as it can cause a real mess and also some cranky neighbor may turn you in for a violation of the air quality rules.

Hope this helps.

Scott

I agree with Scott on this, I'd not give anyone a chance to report you as bing a nuissance. I presume you have a HOA and they typically have wording about pursuing dangerous hobbies in yoru house, i.e. while not likely you could techinically cause a rather large explosion with a dust collector in your garage.

Along those same lines you may want to revisit your homeowners policy, because if you do have an accident in your shop you policy might be voided, at least I've heard rumors of that sort of thing but never fully investigated it myself.

[WoodWrangler]

All great advice. I have looked into a small "lean to" on the side of the garage, and just never feel comfortable with how I'll get it done. I've got no knowledge of construction, or rules and regulations, so I'm just hesitant.

As for HOA ... we don't have one (which was a big reason to live here). However, we do have an organization that mirrors the concept (for which I'm the president still) ... so I probably don't want to push it

Here's another question ... I was looking at the Penn State cyclones too. Though I hadn't considered them before, they are a bit cheaper and look just as nice. Anyone got one?

Right now I'm leaning towards the Oneida. The only thing about them that disgusts me is the crap they pull with ClearVue (like the crap over the Mini CV06) ... which makes me not want to buy their products. I can probably get over it, but I'm a bit sympathetic to the small business...

As for the ClearVue ... I originally had good intention to go that way, but it's not much of any money savings to go that route, and though I know it works great, I'm still learning towards a more refined and finished product and I do favor the metal. However, a great friend of mine in Florida has the ClearVue and I probably need to bump it back at least into consideration. I've read some (okay, a little) of the Pence "book" online ... I suppose I need to read the rest!

[reprosser]

In your neighborhood, I would not direct discharge outside, as it can cause a real mess and also some cranky neighbor may turn you in for a violation of the air quality rules.

Hope this helps.

Scott

I am a little confused on the outside discharge mess.

Since most of the dust and chips are collected by the cone, and some reports I have seen show only a handful of fine dust in the filters after weeks of use - how much of a mess could be created by venting direct outside? Would not the fine dust just drift away? (I am considering the outside discharge myself...)

I understand the air quality issue possibility, just not the mess... (except maybe if you let the chip can overflow)

Maybe someone who discharges outside could let us know how much the dust piles up over time?

[JimmyC]

Originally Posted by reprosser

I am a little confused on the outside discharge mess.

Since most of the dust and chips are collected by the cone, and some reports I have seen show only a handful of fine dust in the filters after weeks of use - how much of a mess could be created by venting direct outside? Would not the fine dust just drift away? (I am considering the outside discharge myself...)

I understand the air quality issue possibility, just not the mess... (except maybe if you let the chip can overflow)

Maybe someone who discharges outside could let us know how much the dust piles up over time?

Very little dust goes out the exhaust, definitely not enough to be considered a hazard, under normal running conditions. But if you allow the barrel to overflow, and it will eventually, the mess can be very large. Just picture an 8" pipe expelling a full tube of dust in a concentrated mass about 5 or 6' long before the wind catches it and deposits it over a large area. Plus the noise is a factor in a HOA environment, even if the DC is inside the sound coming out of the exhaust is fairly annoying.