Cyclone Talk, Again - Page 2

Cyclone Talk, Again · 10-27-2009, 09:31 AM

For the past 5 years I've been running a Jet 1100 dust collector in my hobby shop, and in that time I've tossed around "when" I'm going to upgrade to a cyclone system with better fine dust collection. Well, I'm back at it again ...

Cyclone talk has become similar to a religious, or political, argument. I'm fully aware that people stand on different sides of the fence, BUT I still want to hear it all again.

What I do know is that (1) fine dust collection is a must, (2) I want a system that will last me many years, (3) I'm not looking for a new project in dust collection, but rather a quick assembly, (4) 3HP minimum, and (5) I'm EXTREMELY tight on space -- but somehow always seem to squeeze it in.

After my initial research, I'm pretty much down to these ... HOWEVER I'm open to suggestions.

Oneida Super Dust Gorilla System (5HP, or 3HP)
http://www.oneida-air.com/gorilla_5hp.php
Oneida Portable High Efficiency Cyclone Collector - XXP030100
http://www.oneida-air.com/portable_3hp.php
JDS 3 HP Cyclone 3100
http://www.jdstools.com/index.asp?Pa...TS&Category=27

THOUGHTS? OPINIONS? BELIEFS? FACTS? OTHERS?

Travis Porter · 10-27-2009, 04:00 PM

Nah, Rotary Phase Converters are old school. The real way to go is a DIGITAL PHASE CONVERTER!!!!! I want one of them when I grow up!!!! Quiet, low power consumption when idle, and balanced power output.... Ahhhhhhhh...................

http://www.phaseperfect.com/

Trog777 · 10-27-2009, 04:36 PM

I'll leave brand debate to others. My three suggestions are all about convenience.

A: Get the large stationary unit. To heck with moving between machines. That's fine if you're working on one machine at a time for extended periods, but moving from station to station I'd find myself giving it the old "not worth the hassle/time for just a couple of cuts" thing. Sorta defeats the purpose if it isn't used.

B: Place it as high as you can get it so as to fit a larger container underneath to reduce emptying instances.

C: Vent the sucker outside. No filters to buy/clean. I suppose being able to do that would depend on your setup/neighborhood/heating/return air...

WoodWrangler · 10-27-2009, 10:20 PM

So much great feedback ...

The Clearvue doesn't look like a bad setup, but I'm just not feeling the plastic body. The JDS stuff I have is excellent, but they really need to have this baby put to the test. Penn State is an option I didn't list, and would consider I suppose, just need to look into it. Oneida is a class act, but a bit pricey when all is said and done. Another option is the Grizzly/Shop Fox cyclones that Rick at The Woodworking Source sells. They look very nice too.

Keep the input coming ... this is good stuff!

McRabbet · 10-28-2009, 07:18 PM

Jeremy,

Don't be fooled by the misnomer "plastic" -- the ClearVue is made of PETG (Polyethylene terephthlate glycol), which is a thermoplastic that can be cold- or thermal-formed and is strongly impact resistant (see this site for more details -- it is where ClearVue buys their raw material). With a specific gravity of 1.27, it is much lighter weight that steel, but it's properties really lend themselves to the ClearVue application -- I have personally held a 12" x 1-1/2" strip on a concrete floor and hit it 5-6 times hard with a hammer and it did not crack or even craze (it did dent). I have been operating my CV06 mini cyclone for two years and it is very efficient and the interior is still transparent (it has some haziness). I also have a CV1800 ClearVue which I have not yet installed completely (it sits next to my growing collection of round tuits!) I have knocked it over several times and the main body just goes "boink" and takes the tumble.

Notwithstanding the claims that other hobby cyclone manufacturers may say, the ClearVue is the only cyclone that is specifically built to the Bill Pentz design (under license) and it is very efficient at meeting your primary goal, removing fine dust. Another anecdote I observed during my visit to the CV manufacturing facility in Pickens, SC -- Matt Morgano (son of owner Ed Morgano) showed me the amount of fine dust he removed from the pair of 9L300BL Wynn Filters (300 SF of surface area each and 99.99% efficient at 0.5 micron) after 3-4 months of CNC production work on manufacturing their blower bodies from MDF. It was less than a cup full. Lots of trash cans filled with sawdust had been removed from the primary bin. The cyclone is that efficient.

There are several CV owners on the site -- Trog777, Gdoebs, Jim Murphy, Dino Drosas, Purple Thumb and me. I know that Purple Thumb (Jerry Grant) had his installed and running over a weekend. It is not all that hard to assemble and install.

dino drosas · 10-28-2009, 10:17 PM

I agree 100% with Rob and Purple Thumb in that the ClearVue is the best way to go. I have been using mine for a couple of years now and could not be happier. I plan to move the system out of the shop and not use the filters so that the fine dust blows outside. After a months use there is barely a tablespoon of dust at the bottom of the filters so I don't feel this will even be noticed. I have the 6" main trunk, but now that an 8" is offered, I'd go that way. You will be very pleased if you decide to go with the ClearVue.

Travis Porter · 10-29-2009, 10:39 AM

I definitely agree with the bigger trunk line being a positive. It may cost more initially for the piping, but it is worth it when you get to 3 HP and bigger units.

WoodWrangler · 10-29-2009, 10:44 AM

A few questions for those with cyclones ...

1. Is 3HP enough, or is 5HP too much? I'm a one man shop with one tool on at a time, however several of the tools are larger in size and really need some sucking power.

2. If I vent outside, does that mean I don't need the pleated filter? Would I just pop a hole in the side of my garage and put a little vent cover on the outside, or is more needed?

3. Are yours direct wired into the panel, or do you use a plug?

Travis Porter · 10-29-2009, 11:24 AM

1. Is 3HP enough, or is 5HP too much? I'm a one man shop with one tool on at a time, however several of the tools are larger in size and really need some sucking power.

I have a 3 HP, and feel that it is more than enough. I can run two or three tools simultaneously, and have never had an issue.

2. If I vent outside, does that mean I don't need the pleated filter? Would I just pop a hole in the side of my garage and put a little vent cover on the outside, or is more needed?
I would say that is all you would need. vent it outside. You just lose your heat and cooling in the shop, and it will suck your heat out quickly. Remember that replacement air is going to come in from somewhere so you will need to have your garage door up slightly or a window opened.

3. Are yours direct wired into the panel, or do you use a plug?

Plug. Mine came with a plug and I would have put one on it if it didn't have one.

Bas · 10-29-2009, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by WoodWrangler

2. If I vent outside, does that mean I don't need the pleated filter? Would I just pop a hole in the side of my garage and put a little vent cover on the outside, or is more needed?

Jimmy C looked extensively into this one. Venting outside is great, no filter needed, but as Travis said, you lose your heated/ cooled air. That's probably not a huge deal most of the year (it doesn't get to -20 or 120 here), but probably an issue in August or January. If you could make this work, vent outside when the temperature is reasonable and hook up your filter for the few months it's too cold/ hot. That way, you're cleaning your filter once a decade

ptt49er · 10-29-2009, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Travis Porter

2. If I vent outside, does that mean I don't need the pleated filter? Would I just pop a hole in the side of my garage and put a little vent cover on the outside, or is more needed?
I would say that is all you would need. vent it outside. You just lose your heat and cooling in the shop, and it will suck your heat out quickly. Remember that replacement air is going to come in from somewhere so you will need to have your garage door up slightly or a window opened.

I can't remember the exact size of your garage, but if it's 30x30 with 10' ceilings and your new dust collector is pulling 1500 cfm (random guesses) then you would be replacing the total volume of the air in your shop every 6 minutes. That could be tough to over come temperature wise. I really like the idea of venting it outside, but that'd make it tough to keep the shop warm on a chilly day (since you don't have a/c yet it'd probably help keep it cooler during the summer).

PeteM · 10-29-2009, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by WoodWrangler

2. If I vent outside, does that mean I don't need the pleated filter? Would I just pop a hole in the side of my garage and put a little vent cover on the outside, or is more needed?

How about building an enclosure on the side of the garage and putting the entire unit out there?
Much quieter and won't take up any valuable floor space?
Just thinking . . .

p

JimmyC · 10-29-2009, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Bas

Jimmy C looked extensively into this one. Venting outside is great, no filter needed, but as Travis said, you lose your heated/ cooled air. That's probably not a huge deal most of the year (it doesn't get to -20 or 120 here), but probably an issue in August or January. If you could make this work, vent outside when the temperature is reasonable and hook up your filter for the few months it's too cold/ hot. That way, you're cleaning your filter once a decade

Bas is right about venting outside and losing conditioned air, but I figured that my machines are on less that 10% of the time that I spend in the shop, so that didn't affect my decision. Besides how much of the time that you spend in your shop is under an ideal climate ?

Venting outside has a few major positives if you can do it, and I say if because of proximity to neighbors.

A) You'll never need more than 3hp if you vent directly outside without the backpressure of a last chance filter.

B) There will be much less free dust flowing around your shop.

C) Finally, even if you decide to keep your bin inside it won't matter if you overflow because everything goes outside on the overflow. If your shop is in close proximity to your house or somebody else's they can get covered by a whole lot more dust than you realize you're producing

.

If you used a 2hp blower unit, combined with a thien seperator and blew it directly outside it would be way more than enough for a shop the size of a two car garage.

All that being said, I think that you should spend less time on the brand of cyclone, as long as you're buying a 3hp unit, and more on the size requirements (smaller footprint for you is better) of the unit and the cost. The ducting and accessories will probably cost at least as much as the cyclone, unless you are already set up for 6".

Good luck Bro'

,

Douglas Robinson · 10-29-2009, 01:22 PM

"The ducting and accessories will probably cost at least as much as the cyclone"

This is VERY true!

Travis Porter · 10-29-2009, 02:01 PM

What would really be good is to have the unit outside and the filter inside. That way, no air loss, and less noise. Just build a small enclosure around the unit itself to keep the neighbors from getting mad.

flyrod444 · 10-29-2009, 02:47 PM

I've had a Oneida 2 1/2 HP Dust Gorilla for over one year now and love it. I use the collector when I sand at my lathe more than anything. I have a 5" flex hose that I can postion where I need it when sanding and there is NO DUST at all. I can put my arm in the hose and it cleans the chips of them like magic. You need to look at Oneida's duct size recommendations no matter which system you get. I have mine set up like they tell you to. Start off with the size that goes into the unit and neck it down over the first 15' to 5" duct that they say is the most effective size for these units. It keeps the air speed up and good volume at the same time. To big a pipe can cause the air speed to drop some. I have my lathe around 34' from the collector and it sucks sand paper out of my hand if I don't hold it tight when sanding. I had one small hollow form go through the collector as well. It only recieved a scratch. I mounted my collector in a garage bay that is at the back of my shop. I made a set of vents that open back into the shop when I turn it on so that the air can come back into the shop. The noise is loud if the door is left open to the bay. I also put my compressor back in the bay as well. The reason I went with the 2 1/2" HP is that it uses 30% less electricity with a small loss in CFM's compaired to the 3HP.
Jack