Cabinet Question

Cabinet Question · 07-13-2009, 11:31 AM

I am making a cabinet for a friend up North. The carcass is about 32" tall by 84" wide with 4 doors and no shelves. It may need to be shipped knocked down or unassembled. It will be solid white oak, built more like a piece of furniture than a kitchen cabinet. The customer is capable of limited assembly and installation, he has a butcher block top that will be attached with wood screws through slots in the top of the carcass. The carcass will be dovetailed.

My question is:

What is the best way to attach the face frame?

Remembering that he will have limited tools and I will not be there to help. Everything will be prefinished but I can tape off the parts that will be glued, I can send along a bottle of titebond.

Would biscuits be the best solution or I was thinking some through dowels of contrasting wood.
He may not have pipeclamps. I could make a set of wood clamps with wedges.

I have never used pocket screws and don't want to try something that new to me.

Any ideas, suggestions?

Robert Brunke' · 07-13-2009, 12:14 PM

Dado the back of the face frame 1/8" deep x carcass thickness for width. Pocket hole the inside of the carcass, dry fit with 1" pocket screws. Then dismantle and ship with titebond II and 1" pocket screws and a 6" #2 square drive bit. Have used this method for shipping cabinets to homeowner in Palm Springs, California. No clamps needed.
Here is the opportunity to buy a new tool!

Once you have one (Kreg Pocket hole jig) you will wonder how you ever built without one. Pocket screwing has a minimal learning curve.
Regards,
Robert

froglips · 07-13-2009, 12:28 PM

In the New Yankee Workshop kitchen shows, Norm used biscuts.

He cut a groove/slot all along the front edges of the carcass. Then cut "normal" biscuit slots in the back face of the face frame.

In this situation, you could also look at using those self-clamping biscuits. I found an example at Rockler: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21511

Jim

Mike Davis · 07-13-2009, 12:34 PM

Jim,

The frame is already built using full tenon and through mortise construction.

I just need a way for my customer to attach the frame to the carcass.

I may try the pocket screws. Since the glue will do most of the holding and the screws will only align and clamp the frame to the box.

I guess I need to go ahead and get it and practice on a couple smaller pieces.

rbdoby · 07-13-2009, 12:44 PM

I agree with Robert. You'll need to clamp everything in place for the dry fit but not for final assembly. All your friend should need are the screws and a driver. I've got 2 Kreg Jigs if you want to borrow one. They are simple to use. A corded drill works better for drilling the pocket holes. Screws are available at Lowe's and McFeely's.

Rick Doby

Bigdog72 · 07-13-2009, 01:05 PM

Pocket screws are so easy even I can use them.

Mike Davis · 07-13-2009, 01:41 PM

Thanks Rick,

I'll probably just buy one. I need to play with it a while and if I like it I'll be using it off and on.

Eventually I plan to build cabinets for our kitchen.

Probably have to build them out in a field somewhere.

jhreed · 07-13-2009, 03:49 PM

Mike, kregs website has tutorials that are helpful. I agree with everyone else. There is a very short learning curve. I bought the $30.00 pkg. Wish i had bought the $100.00 pkg. Kreg says their system is strong enought without the glue. If you use the pocket hole system, you do not need the clamps in assembly, the screws serve that function.
James

Joe Scharle · 07-13-2009, 04:10 PM

Mike, this is a shop box that is pushed around all the time. About a year old now. I built it as an experiment to test the Kreg system. I've used pocket screws for many years, but Kreg took the process off the tilted table drill press and made it really convenient. Not a drop of glue in the cabinet or drawers. Bottom drawer holds 2 routers.

Mike Davis · 07-13-2009, 04:34 PM

So, for occasional use would the mini-Kreg do just as well?

Is the clamp the only difference?

I can see myself using the small one more often.

Tarhead · 07-13-2009, 04:54 PM

Just saw this today thanks to Glenn's post:
http://www.fastcap.com/blind-nail-set.aspx
These nifty double ended brads pre-installed on the carcass, a bottle of glue, block of wood and a hammer. Should give enough grip to hold the face frame molding steady for the glue to dry. Registration could be an issue as I didn't see the female version of these brads.

Low-Tech method: You could also pre-install some short 1/4" registration dowels on the frame and holes for them in the carcass. Include some glue and a roll of blue masking tape to hold it together while the glue dries.

McRabbet · 07-13-2009, 08:02 PM

Mike,

Robert Brunke' hit a home run with his method -- you've got the face frames made and the M&T joints will keep them solid. But by adding the 1/8" dado the exact thickness of the cabinet sides will insure that the carcase stays square, too and attachment with pocket screws is quick and very strong (I use TB-II in the dado). I've used this with a rabbet in the stiles for flush-fit face frames and Hettick or Blum euro hunges for 1/2 overlay doors. For wall cabinets, the lower face frame rail is always made so it is flush with the floor of the cabinet, hence a rabbet. John Richards (Woodguy1975) used this technique in his cabinet-making class.

As a footnote, if you want the pocket holes hidden, I just do them from the outside of the carcase top and under the carcase where they are out of normal eyesight. Push-come-to-shove, you can use plugs that Kreg supplies, too. Be sure to use 1" pocket screws and not the normal 1-1/4" screws used with 3/4" stock or they will likely come through the face because of the dado.

BobcatBob · 07-14-2009, 11:58 PM

Hi Mike,

It sounds like you have a biscuit tool so I would suggest using 2 biscuits each top and bottom and 1 biscuit each for the sides. This would help aligning the face frame to the cabinet and then I would use pocket screws to fasten the face frame to the cabinet.

Bob

Mike Davis · 07-15-2009, 10:03 AM

I stopped by Klingspor yesterday and bought the smaller Kreg kit - $44 + $5.95 for 100 screws. They talked me into the 1 1/4 screws because my frame is 7/8" thick. I will make some test runs and see where the best drill depth is.

Since my frame is already assembled I will have to set up a guide and route the rabbit for the carcass to fit into the frame. Shouldn't be too big a deal. I like the thought of the rabbited face holding the carcass square since this is a freestanding cabinet.

I plan to make the sides and floor panels full width and dovetailed and the top just a couple 3 inch strips to attach the face and top, the strips will also be dovetailed into the sides.

Since the top will be an end grain maple butcher block I think I will drill 1/2 inch holes in the strips and supply screws with large fender washers to attach the top. That should allow enough movement for the top. My thought was since the attachment points are in relatively narrow strips that the strips would bow with the top and should prevent the top from splitting if there is any large seasonal movement. The half inch holes would be extra insurance.

Since this cabinet will not be attached to the wall I plan to build a dovetailed skirt/stand 3 1/2 inches high and screwed to the floor of the carcass with the pocket screws. I think it will be aligned at the back and inset from the face and sides.

How much would you inset the toe kick on a freestanding cabinet like this? The top will overhang about an inch around three sides and flush at the back.

Bigdog72 · 07-15-2009, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Mike Davis

How much would you inset the toe kick on a freestanding cabinet like this? The top will overhang about an inch around three sides and flush at the back.

Standard toe kick depth is 3 1/2" but YMMV!!