Re-Opening the Off Topic thread

Re-Opening the Off Topic thread · 03-19-2008, 01:07 PM

This was the second time I have felt it necessary to provide a "time Out"

for the Off Topic forum. The first time, we renamed it from "get it off your chest" to Off Topic. The thinking was that the old title was giving implicit permission to flame things and people and that anything goes. Well, this is not WoodNet, so that was never the intention and it will never be.

What caused me to close the forum temporarily? Well, one of those threads arose that happens every once in a while started and seemed to get out of hand. The moderators, rightly, jumped on it and tried to edit some posts and deleted others and finally the thread was closed. I would have thought that, that would have been the end it.

But behind the scenes, many people and staff members were still very upset and even angry. Their argument was the moderation was not even handed. That only one side of the argument was being moderated.

While we attempted to understand the root causes for that criticism, I closed the forum. That investigation is now complete has far as we are able to. So I will shortly re-open the forum.

But before I do that I would like to make a few points. What we found was that the thread in question had posts in it that I would characterize into 3 general categories.

Insensitive wording
Argumentative
Inflammatory.

We, the staff, are only human beings. We are doing the best we can, to maintain the excellent atmosphere that we normally enjoy. But we do not and can not always see how something will be taken by other members. In the case of this incident. The argumentative and inflammatory statement drew our first attention and were dealt with swiftly. The insensitive wording, which was probably the root cause of the thread going south, was overlooked because the other two categories drew our immediate attention AND the posts that had insensitive wording were just not recognized as such. Mea Culpea.

The staff now understands better that some things that were said without any intended malice, were indeed offensive to many of our members and staff. We all will try to better.

However, I will not be updating our written policy because of this. I think if we all, members and will use reasonable common sense, situations like this can be minimized.

Now some things that should be kept in mind.

The word "SUCKS'. As a carryover from WoodNet, we use it all the time as a perverted form of congratulations

But I don't think we should ban the use of the word, I think we should remember that in most contexts, the word will be construed as very negative. Please watch your use of this word.

Most of us live in NC. For me this is now my home and I love it, even though I came here from Philadelphia via a 25 year stint in the San Francisco Bay Area/Silicon Valley/San Jose. Please recognize that Native NC'ers are proud of their state, as they should be, and can find it offensive, when some of us transplants make insensitive remarks.

"Go back where you come from" types of statements are extremely inflammatory, and will not be tolerated, whatever you think is a justifiable provocation.

Furthering the argument or piling on. - When someone is upset by a post, it DOES NOT give them the right to lash back in kind. They become just as guilty as the person who said the offending item. They have 2 options, either or both would be alright in book. Report the thread/posts to a moderator and/or send a PM to the person and let them know your feelings. But I suggest that you word your PM politely or you will just cause another problem instead of calming it down.

"I just tell like I see it" - This is a code phrase for, "the **** with civility". I and the rest of the staff will not accept that as an excuse. In fact, it only emphasis ones lack of desire to accept and abide by the spirit of the policies and intents of this site.

Oh just to be clear, staff members, DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to do any of the above and if they do they are more guilty than whoever started it. If we do those things, we lose our credibility and thus our authority.

In closing I would like to add the following ideas.

Originally Posted by Tom Dunn

Post Like You're Writing To Your Mother!

Of course, that assumes that you are on good terms with your Mother

In my case, Post Like You're Writing To Your Father, he would have knocked me on my ***, if he didn't like my tone

And my way of thinking of it, is post as if you were speaking in front of and auditorium filled with 1500 people.

And remember, "A smiley a post keeps the moderator away"

Nativespec · 03-19-2008, 01:19 PM

As a repeat offender and no. 1 in moderator deleted posts, I would like to offer my sincere appologies. Is there a nicer way to say that the road goes in both directions? I like to inject humor whenever possible, I just seem to forget to add the little smiley faces. :>

I will attempt to not discuss political persons of interest and the runaway mess they have caused in my hometown and I will start spelling the whole word Japanese.

Sorry once again.

Foul language does not add to the conversation, it usually distracts-I try not to use it.

I just got my new Festool Midi Vac and 1400 router when I got back to the office (UPS left it sitting in the hall as usual)-I hope it sucks really good

David

nelsone · 03-19-2008, 01:27 PM

Thanks for the update Steve. I thoroughly appreciate what you have provided for us and what you have to put up with from us!

Hopefully everyone will respect this forum so the OT treads can remain an option!

SteveColes · 03-19-2008, 01:27 PM

David, almost everyone gets moderated from time time. The person who has probably bee moderated the most is DaveO

We all make mistakes. I appreciate you owning up in public and for understandin what we a re trying to do.

McRabbet · 03-19-2008, 02:42 PM

Well stated,

Papa Smurf!

Let's get on with keeping this the

Friendliest Woodworking Site on the Internet!

Bas · 03-19-2008, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by SteveColes

We are doing the best we can, to maintain the excellent atmosphere that we normally enjoy.

If you want to know what happens without moderators, go hang out in alt.hvac for a while. My attempts at humor and big mouth have gotten me into trouble occasionally. Not just on-line, but also in this thing called "real life". Knowing there is a friendly moderator who will politely me tap me on the shoulder and say "dude, be mindful of that you're saying" - very helpful!

Kudos to the staff here, for all the hard work they do. And Steve - major kudos for the open and honest post.

Bigdog72 · 03-19-2008, 03:08 PM

Does this mean we get the "Pizza" thread back?

Seriously, Steve, thank you for your time and effort. I wouldn't do it!!!

Jon · 03-19-2008, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Bigdog72

Does this mean we get the "Pizza" thread back?

Seriousle, Steve, thank you for your time and effort. I wouldn't do it!!!

Steve W · 03-19-2008, 04:41 PM

This is one of the best-run forums in which I have ever participated. Steve, many thanks go out to you and all the others who take the time to keep things running smoothly here.

I can't imagine how shy, quiet Bas would ever get into trouble

.

I try to keep things to as you stated them, and one way is to treat these non-political forums like I treat my time using amateur radio: don't discuss or severely limit discussions of politics and religion. I find that by avoiding those two, I avoid 99% of potential trouble.

Thanks again for all the work you do!

Steve

DaveO · 03-19-2008, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by SteveColes

David, almost everyone gets moderated from time time. The person who has probably bee moderated the most is DaveO

We all make mistakes. I appreciate you owning up in public and for understandin what we a re trying to do.

Hey I got a lot to choose from

I was just about to post the same thing...thanks for reminding me

Dave

jerrye · 03-19-2008, 07:07 PM

I understand & appreciate how difficult it is to interpret what someone writes. It is extremely difficult. However, I would like to propose something that I think might go a long way toward avoiding flameouts & tirades.

First, I will quote my dad, who was not smart but was very wise: "When in doubt, give someone the benefit of the doubt", meaning that they might not have meant their words to say what YOU read them to say. I've tried to follow his advice but have many times caused much consternation because I automatically assumed (yes, THAT word & all it breaks down to) they were saying what I thought they said instead of what they were trying to say. I now try to repeat their words back to them, with the meaning I heard, so that they can clarify. Here I think that can be done in a PM.

Second, it seems to me that we take ourselves too seriously. I know it makes a huge difference when we all lighten up. We all have differences. That's one thing that keeps the world from being boring. We need not let those differences separate us from reason, which will release our emotion, which will separate us from each other and ultimately this board. I don't want to see that happen.

Now, for those who intentionally flame others, shame on you. You can change. I did. I had to grow up to do it, but I changed. Think about it before posting something that you know will irritate. Think about how they will be affected. Then follow the advice already given. Post what you know will encourage, not discourage. After all, you might need one of us someday. Where will you be if you need help & you've flamed everyone? Besides, we all have opinions, but that doesn't make us right. Mine or yours. That's why they're called opinions!

Respectfully submitted,
Jerry

Keye · 03-19-2008, 07:18 PM

Hey Bas, I have always appreciated them that are unique and have character. You fit the discription. The world is to full of the cookie cutter types. You may push the edge a little but in my opinion do not cross it.

Steve, you mentioned another web site that I no longer frequent. I have no problem with an OT forum unless it leads us down the path of the other web site. With the way you guys/gals run this site I do no think we need worry. Free speach is a right but membership in this web site is a priviledge.

Boy that was way to serious

.

DaveO · 03-19-2008, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by jerrye

Second, it seems to me that we take ourselves too seriously. I know it makes a huge difference when we all lighten up. We all have differences. That's one thing that keeps the world from being boring. We need not let those differences separate us from reason, which will release our emotion, which will separate us from each other and ultimately this board. I don't want to see that happen.

Respectfully submitted,
Jerry

QFT
Very well ~~said~~ typed, Jerry

Dave

TracyP · 03-19-2008, 08:32 PM

Thanks for re-opening the off topic forum, I enjoy this forum and visit frequently.

Trent Mason · 03-19-2008, 09:21 PM

Steve and moderators,

Thanks so much for opening the OT forum back up!

I sincerely hope that I'm not one of the ones that has been moderated. All day long, I am surrounded by people that curse like sailors (myself included), and in general do everything that is bad for them in excess (myself included). Therefore, there aren't a whole lot of things that someone could say to offend me, as long as it is in a sarcastic/joking tone.

I'm a member of a few other forums, including the one mentioned above and I can honestly say that this one is a true pleasure to be a part of. This IS the friendliest site on the internet in my opinion. Trust me, on a certain surfing forum that I'm a member of, I've seen people pour their hearts out to people and just get ridiculed and made fun of for it. THAT is wrong. It was actually so bad on one occasion that I paddled out the following day and actually hated everyone in the water around me. Complete strangers, sitting there beside me, I wouldn't even look at them unless it was an evil glare. And the odds are, those people probably weren't even on that forum and had nothing to do with it.

The point is, an internet forum is a sample of a larger population of people. Therefore, if someone is completely offended by a bunch of negatvie energy/comments, they may actually start to dislike the entire population. That is why this is so important.

Anyway, I will only use "you suck" for gloats from here on. I doubt I would've ever used it for anything else on here, but I think that is kind've a custom for gloats. BTW, I have a nice gloat coming up sometime in the next week or so. More details "once it arrives".

Thanks Steve and Mods!!!!!!

Trent

Residency requirements