Looking for 70 BF of 8/4" Walnut

[Trent Mason]

I just called the local hardwood dealer and they want $6.59/BF for walnut. I just thought I'd throw that out here and see if there is any feasible way to get it for less from somewhere else. If any of you know where I can find it for less, I'll figure out the price of gas/shipping and see if it would be worth it.

Again, I'm looking for 70 BF of 8/4" walnut

TIA

Trent

[jeff...]

Originally Posted by wtf21

I just called the local hardwood dealer and they want $6.59/BF for walnut. I just thought I'd throw that out here and see if there is any feasible way to get it for less from somewhere else. If any of you know where I can find it for less, I'll figure out the price of gas/shipping and see if it would be worth it.

Again, I'm looking for 70 BF of 8/4" walnut

TIA

Trent

Trent - you want it Kiln Dried or would green fresh cut off the log do?

Thanks

[Jim Murphy]

Trent, you do know that 8/4 green off the log needs at least two years of air drying before it can be worked successfully.

Buy today
Put away
Make your table
Another day.

(No charge for the lovely bards-words)

[Trent Mason]

Jeff,

I would prefer if it were kiln dried. That brings up another topic I've been wondering about. I work for a restoration company and have lots of fans and dehumidifiers at my disposal. If I were to get green wood and put it in an air-tight room with fans and dehus running around the clock, would that sufficiently dry the wood in a fairly short amount of time? We use this equipment to dry out houses that have suffered a water loss and generally get the baseboards etc down to around 15% MC. For example, a baseboard could've been completely saturated and we can usually dry it to less than 20% MC in a few days. I guess my main question would be whether or not this method of drying would have any adverse effects on the wood. Jeff, I'm fairly new to this, but I'm assuming kiln dried would cost more? I want to use this wood for a coffee table.

Trent

[Ray Martin]

I'll defer to Jeff and some of the other sawyers here, but a quick dry might not work all that well for thicker wood. At 8/4, quick drying might dry the outermost parts of the wood without letting the moisture at the innermost parts migrate to the exterior.

Ray

[DaveO]

Trent, any reason you want so much thick stock??? I definitely wouldn't consider hurrying the process of drying any hardwoods especially thicker stock. Plus unless you are wanting to make outdoor furniture, you will want your MC down to around 8%, and that is hard to obtain with air drying.
Dave

[jeff...]

Trent to answer your questions. See below in Blue

* I'm fairly new to this, but I'm assuming kiln dried would cost more? Absolutely Kiln Dried lumber will cost more than Green lumber, Air dried is somewhere in between as far a cost goes.

* For example, a baseboard could've been completely saturated and we can usually dry it to less than 20% MC in a few days YIKES man, talking about case harding, time is your friend when it comes to drying wood. There is a maximum moisture content loss per day for most all lumber - it's coined as a kiln schedule. A good rule of thumb is to divide the max moisture content loss perday for every inch in thickness... 4/4 Walnut has a 7% max moisture content loss per day, 8/4 would be approx 3.5%, 12/4 would be 1.75% 16/4 would be .87%.

so for example under "ideal" conditions, lets assume a piece of walnut fresh cut of the log is at 50% moisture content and we want to get it down to ~ 8%. We would need to remove 42% of it's water it would take a minimum of:
4/4 - 6 days
8/4 - 12 days
12/4 - 24 days
16/4 - 48 days

I've found that ideal in a good quality kiln, with an experienced operator is more like double those days then add a few days for serialization and stress relief...

[b]* If I were to get green wood and put it in an air-tight room with fans and dehus running around the clock, would that sufficiently dry the wood in a fairly short amount of time? [b]You bet you could, BUT you need be careful to not exceed the maximum moisture content loss per day, for the species and thickness your drying. Defect will occur and plenty of it. Go slow and easy, it's better to dry slower than it is to dry to fast but to slow a dry and you risk mold growth - kiln drying is almost like an art into it's self - every kiln load has it's own personality. That's why experienced kiln operators make the big bucks

Hope this helped a little thanks for the opportunity to reply

[Trent Mason]

Thanks for all of the information Jeff (and everyone else). I wanted to make a surfboard coffee table out of walnut and a little bit of maple. The reason I want it so thick is because I would like it to be as close to the thickness of a real surfboard as possible (doable). A typical surfboard is between 2 and 3 inches thick at it's thickest point. I drew out my plans for it today and my boss and I sat down and figured out the board feet. It came out to about 70 BF of Wlanut and 10 BF of maple. I realize I'll lose a little bit of that thickness from planing/etc, but every part of that table is designed to be as close to 8/4 as possible. Instead of legs I was going to do a bent lamination (arch) that holds the table top up and rests on a base that is roughly as thick as the table top (as close to 8/4" as possible). I thought about face glueing boards together to achieve the thickness I want, but that would look really bad around the rails, so I opted for 8/4".

Jeff, I did have one question about one part of your reply. You mentioned that in "ideal conditions" it would take a minimum of 12 days to dry 8/4" walnut. Is that using a kiln or air drying? That is probably a very stupid question, but I know very little about this. As someone mentioned earlier, it takes years (?) to air dry wood. I did kind've want to start on this at some point in the near future, but I would also like to be cost effective. I guess, I would like to get wood that is or will be pretty close to ready to use. So, that being said, what do you all suggest?

Trent

[jeff...]

Originally Posted by wtf21

Thanks for all of the information Jeff (and everyone else). I wanted to make a surfboard coffee table out of walnut and a little bit of maple. The reason I want it so thick is because I would like it to be as close to the thickness of a real surfboard as possible (doable). A typical surfboard is between 2 and 3 inches thick at it's thickest point. I drew out my plans for it today and my boss and I sat down and figured out the board feet. It came out to about 70 BF of Wlanut and 10 BF of maple. I realize I'll lose a little bit of that thickness from planing/etc, but every part of that table is designed to be as close to 8/4 as possible. Instead of legs I was going to do a bent lamination (arch) that holds the table top up and rests on a base that is roughly as thick as the table top (as close to 8/4" as possible). I thought about face glueing boards together to achieve the thickness I want, but that would look really bad around the rails, so I opted for 8/4".

Jeff, I did have one question about one part of your reply. You mentioned that in "ideal conditions" it would take a minimum of 12 days to dry 8/4" walnut. Is that using a kiln or air drying? That is probably a very stupid question, but I know very little about this. As someone mentioned earlier, it takes years (?) to air dry wood. I did kind've want to start on this at some point in the near future, but I would also like to be cost effective. I guess, I would like to get wood that is or will be pretty close to ready to use. So, that being said, what do you all suggest?

Trent

Trent 12 days would be more like 24 plus a few days to sterilize and stress relief in a good quality kiln with a good experienced operator. What a lot of folks do is air dry to equilibrium which around here is about 12 ~ 18% then polish it off in a kiln or with a dehumidifier to bring it down to 6% ~ 10%. It takes far less time in the kiln then and is a lot cheaper. Only trade off is you have lumber hanging around for months seasoning till it reaches equilibrium that you can't use, this relates to actual $$$ tied up for that amount of time. But green sawmill lumber is a lot less expensive in comparison to store bought lumber, It's a trade off of time vers $$$.

I was going to point you to http://www.internetlumber.com/lumber.../WALNUT-LUMBER but their 8/4 - 4" wide walunt is more expensive than what you were quoted. 4" wide walnut is well 4" wide Plus they changed their website and now I'm all confused what's what.

[Trent Mason]

Jeff,

Again, thanks so much for all of this information. I can't believe I didn't know this stuff already. So THIS is why people hoard wood? Well, it looks like I have two options. Either I make the table shorter, or buy green wood and wait. To be honest, I wouldn't mind waiting for a while, I'm just not sure how long is "a while". Two years? Nope. I could wait for a few months though. I guess the tough thing for me is that for what I need, if I bought it here, it would cost me $500, just for the wood. But I could work on it tomorrow. But man, that's pretty steap for a coffee table, especially since I already have one.

Trent

[jeff...]

Originally Posted by wtf21

Jeff,

Again, thanks so much for all of this information. I can't believe I didn't know this stuff already. So THIS is why people hoard wood? Well, it looks like I have two options. Either I make the table shorter, or buy green wood and wait. To be honest, I wouldn't mind waiting for a while, I'm just not sure how long is "a while". Two years? Nope. I could wait for a few months though. I guess the tough thing for me is that for what I need, if I bought it here, it would cost me $500, just for the wood. But I could work on it tomorrow. But man, that's pretty steap for a coffee table, especially since I already have one.

Trent

I see your located over at Wrightsville Beach, Ivey is located in Burgaw just up I40 from you - He might have some walnut that's air drying, I'll PM him for you.

Thanks

[Trent Mason]

Jeff,

Thanks so much!!! I just PM'd you but was never sure where you were located. I greatly appreciate it!!!

Trent

[Kyle]

8/4 green will take closer to 26 days in a kiln to dry, also most commercial wood and resellers sell "STEAMED" which will not be as rich a color as what us small sawyer sell.

[scsmith42]

Ditto Kyle's comments. 8/4 BW has a targeted max daily drying rate in a DH kiln of 3% per day (40% of the daily 8% rate for 4/4).

However, not all wood drys at the same rate, and there are MC% thresholds during the drying process where it's safe to change the drying conditions. If your fast drying wood is moving along at 3% per day, but some slower wood is drying at 2% per day, then the slower drying wood dictates the kiln schedule.

You shouldn't make the schedule much more aggressive in order to speed up the slower drying wood, because then you risk damaging the faster drying wood.

Each load is different, but on average 25 - 30 days is about right for a 3% species.

Scott

[Kyle]

Scott is correct in stating not all wood will dry the same..

To calculate you need an initial MC reading then divide by 3% for 8/4 to prevent case hardening and potential damage to the core.

air drying in the summer months then having it kiln dried once below 25% is a fast effective way to reduce overall cost and drying time.

6.59 for 8/4 walnut is probably not out of line in your neck of the woods especially for a brick and mortar store. Fuel cost are driving up cost of logs and delivery.

I have around 12,000 bf of walnut logs right now but only around 300 bf of 8/4 air drying..