Drum sander kit?

[Glennbear]

A while back I posted a classified ad for a used stationary sander to be used for removing finish from my stockpile of recycled lumber. I have been unable to find a used machine in my price range but today I found the drum sander kits marketed by stockroom supply. This type of machine seems to suit my wallet and would appear to be less likely to load up with old finish goo when compared to conventional drum/belt machines. I am not looking to do any thicknessing but removing old finish from thousands of BF of wood with a handheld belt sander is something I want to avoid. Does anyone at North Carolina Woodworker have any experience with these shop-built machines ?

http://www.stockroomsupply.com/V_Drum_Sander.php

[Alan in Little Washington]

I don't have any experience with them, but read a couple of threads on various forums by folks who have made their own drum sanders and have also seen the "Sand Flea" up close at WW shows. It is just like the Stockroom Supply "V Drum Sander."

First, the Sand Flea and V Drum Sander are made for smooth finishing and not designed to remove large amounts of material from large pieces of stock, AND DEFINITELY NOT DESIGNED TO REMOVE FINISH. They are NOT heavy duty machines.

While you could theoretially buy Stockroom Supply parts to make a more traditional drum sander, you are handicapped by a number of issues-

• The Stockroom Supply drums are small in diameter so don't have a lot of grit surface- they will load up (goo up) quickly, especially if you are trying to remove paint.
• The Stockroom Supply drums, bearings, etc, do not look substantial enough for what you are trying to do.
• Unless you make a true drum sander with a power feed conveyor and pressure rollers, I think it will be VERY, VERY hard to manually feed the stock and remove the finish.
• If you are planning on making a dual drum sander, you will invest almost as much money in parts, motors, etc, etc. as you will buying a used one, and in the end will just have a homebuilt, lesser quality, version of something that you should have purchased. So unless you are thinking of building one just for the joy of building one, I would reconsider. I am a tinkerer and build a lot of stuff. At one time I thought about building a drum sander, but after careful thought, wisely decided against it.
• I have a 24" Grizzly dual drum sander, with 6" diameter drums and a 5 hp motor. It, like all true drum sanders, is only designed to remove a tiny fraction of the surface per pass. None of these drum sanders are designed to remove finish.
• Most of the guys who build sanders like the V Drum or conventional drum sanders, are luthiers and are using them to prepare small quantities of (clean) wood and veneer.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but based on your intended use, thought I would give you my take.

My suggestion is to get a cheap, used 12" - 13" table-top planer and install the cheapest blades you can find, and use that to remove the paint/finish from your wood. Yes, you will ruin a couple of sets of blades, but they can be used even when dull, just to remove the finish. Install a fresh set of good blades when you are ready to dimension your lumber. It will be much easier and quicker in the long run. Since you are using recycled lumber, you might consider purchasing a metal detector also.

[Tarhead]

Stockroom Supply is listed as having a booth at the Charlotte WW'ing show. Dust collection would be a concern. Got lead? May want to get a lead check kit before investing too much into to your stockpile.

[Glennbear]

1. Stock in question only has an old clear finish, no paint.

2. None is wider than 12".

3. Dust collection connection will be provided on cabinet if I go this route.

4. Info from factory:

Unique Features of the V-Drum
1. No clips needed for holding paper. VELCRO brand hook and loop is used for changing paper - simply unroll one grit and roll on another.

2. On longer drums use two or three different grits at once.
3. Klingspor brand stearate coated paper will sand pine, paint and even nails without damaging the sandpaper, a savings to the user.
4. Sandpaper used on the V-Drum is less costly than the clothback paper used for commercial units.

5. The drum is made form polycarbonate tubing which runs cooler and eliminates static. With no static on the drum, dust won't stick to the paper. Instead it drops down into the box, allowing for easier dust collection.
6. With the use of fences and hold downs, the drum works much like a jointer.
7. Centrifugal force is a key element. Firstly it lifts paper off the drum creating an air gap. The air gap prevents the drum from creating heat, which in turn helps paper to last longer. Secondly, centrifugal force means it takes less power to run the "V"-Drum as the drum is not forcing the paper into the wood.

8. Depth of cut is changed by switching the grit of sandpaper. If you want to cut more use a coarser grit, but to cut less, use a finer grit, etc.

Due to the unique design/operation of these sanders I think we have to have a different mindset. Basically what we are talking about is similar in charecteristics to an upside down belt sander (high speed/ low pressure on the paper with air flow beneath the paper due to the stretch of the velcro fastening) viewing the videos on the factory site gives a better idea of the operating principles including a demo of finish removal. The suggestion of using a planer had been considered but the cost of replacement knives rapidly brings the numbers closer to the overall costs of building this sander. I certainly do not want to use my DW 735 for finish removal and the cheapest I have seen a used lunchbox planer was yesterday for $95 and would end up being a singular purpose tool. This sander could be used for other sanding besides finish removal. Just my thoughts

[McRabbet]

There are plans for making a drum sander in Vol 15, Issue 86 of ShopNotes. It runs on a belt driven by your tablesaw. The drum is fabricated from wooden disks, but it looks like it would work for some basic sanding. PM me with your email address if you'd like a copy as a PDF file.

Note: File sent in 3 parts due to size.

[FredP]

you may want to rethink this. I have run finished stock through my drum sander and it made a real mess! it gums the paper almost instantly. you will prolly waste a LOT of sand paper. my suggestion would be stripper first to remove the clear finish then plane it. its messy and the fumes are obnoxious so outside would be best but its cheaper by far than sand paper. YMMV.

[Alan in Little Washington]

Originally Posted by Glennbear

1. Stock in question only has an old clear finish, no paint.

Unique Features of the V-Drum
1. No clips needed for holding paper. VELCRO brand hook and loop is used for changing paper - simply unroll one grit and roll on another.

Believe me, it is not as easy as it sounds because you spiral wind it. You really must be careful with H&L as many people have found out with ROS sanders- too much pressure, too much heat, and the hooks melt! Most H&L drum sanders still use clips or strapping tape on the edges.

2. On longer drums use two or three different grits at once.

I got see that to believe it. How do you attach the ends? Wrap with strapping tape- unless you have a very wide drum, you lose a lot of capacity.

3. Klingspor brand stearate coated paper will sand pine, paint and even nails without damaging the sandpaper, a savings to the user.

Whoever wrote that claim has a very long nose!!!!

4. Sandpaper used on the V-Drum is less costly than the clothback paper used for commercial units.

Why? Because it is lighter duty? Then it won't hold up. Are they the suppliers of this durable yet lightweight paper?

5. The drum is made from polycarbonate tubing which runs cooler and eliminates static. With no static on the drum, dust won't stick to the paper. Instead it drops down into the box, allowing for easier dust collection.

Polycarbonate is plastic! It doesn't work well as a heat sink like aluminum and other metals used in all "good" drum sanders. Since it doesn't dissipate the heat, it will absorb it, so there is a danger of warping!!! Again, growing nose here!

6. With the use of fences and hold downs, the drum works much like a jointer.

Holddowns? How, where do they mount???

7. Centrifugal force is a key element. Firstly it lifts paper off the drum creating an air gap. The air gap prevents the drum from creating heat, which in turn helps paper to last longer. Secondly, centrifugal force means it takes less power to run the "V"-Drum as the drum is not forcing the paper into the wood.

All drum sanders, should work this way right? As soon as you lay or press a board down on the drum, there goes the air gap, at least on the top. How does air flow under the paper?

8. Depth of cut is changed by switching the grit of sandpaper. If you want to cut more use a coarser grit, but to cut less, use a finer grit, etc.

Jointers control depth of cut by adjusting the height of the infeed table. Changing grit will only have a limited affect- depending on the difference in thickness of the grit. Another real stretch.

Basically what we are talking about is similar in charecteristics to an upside down belt sander

But you only have a fraction of the contact area!! How do you keep from sanding scallops in the board- you must carefully and manually feed the board while maintaining constant, consistent pressure!!

Again, I don't think this will do what you think it will!

[NZAPP1]

Originally Posted by McRabbet

There are plans for making a drum sander in Vol 15, Issue 86 of ShopNotes. It runs on a belt driven by your tablesaw.

I have built this. I like it for flattening segment sections.

[Glennbear]

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguements and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-Herbert Spencer

[Alan in Little Washington]

Sounds like you already made up your mind. Please follow up with cost, pics and use report.

[JackLeg]

I'm kinda in Fred's corner on this, and I'm probably the LEAST experienced. BUT, I saw a product yesterday at the WW show in
Charlotte that removes old finishes and is made from SOY! We checked it out pretty good, and it looks feasable. No, I don't remember the name, but maybe someone else will.

I like "green" products.

[JackLeg]

I did remember the soy remover after all. Go to www.franmar.com. Franmar Chemical is the company. Worth a look.

[Tarhead]

Well Glenn...I took a look at the items Stockroom Supply had at the show today and witnesssed firsthand how their sander works. It really works well stripping paint, varnish, etc off straight stock. If your stock is warped or big/heavy you will need to figure out a big top with some hold downs. They have the spring rollers that appear to work. No great clouds of dust (even with no vacumn attached!), no heating up/melting of the H&L, very smooth operation with link belts and balanced pulleys so medium duty pillowblocks will be fine. No corning of the paper at all...none! The paper appears to hold up much better than anything I've seen so I would not invest in multiple boxes of the same grit. Not in the same league as a belt/drum sander but for what you need it looks like just the ticket with some 80 grit paper. I would not plan to use it for heavy leveling as it just takes ~5 thousandths max per pass. If I were doing a lot of endgrain cutting boards it would be great. The Sandflea looks like it works on the same principle but comes as a complete machine.
Passed my Male Cow Compost meter

[Glennbear]

Thank you very much Mark, your findings validate my research and their claims. My stock of heart pine is all pretty much flat so cupped boards not an issue. As I stated before as long as it removes finish it will suit me since I will be using a DW735 for thicknessing and ROS for finish sanding. I was going to make the trek to Charlotte but my truck needs some work before I venture too far and I want to be ready for the shop crawl next weekend