buying/building a freestanding shop/barn?

brenthenze · 09-22-2005, 12:55 PM

Okay, this is only sort of a "buying/selling" question.

I'm going to be in the market for a new shop soon. Right now, my whole shop is an 8'x20' shed, which means I set up a tool, use it, put it away, set up another tool, use it, etc. (stepping over chainsaws, lawnmowers, and gas cans the whole time). In the next two years, I'd like either to build or to buy a freestanding barn/shop on my property, and I'd like to hear the stories of anyone who has done so themselves: did you design it yourself? did you work with a contractor/architect? did you use a prefab kit? how much did it cost?

I'd like something that's architecturally consistent with (or at least not wildly inconsistent with) my house, a fairly traditional two-story colonial saltbox. I'd also like it to be two-story (wood storage upstairs; shop downstairs), and big enough for some storage of lawnmowers, etc. as well. I'm not enthusiastic about the metal structures that I see advertised in all the woodworking magazines; I'd rather have something more traditional-looking--either a farm-barn-style building or a cottage-style building.

But at this point I have no idea what I'm getting into cost-wise: does a standard two-story barn cost $10k or $50k to build? Would it be cheaper or more expensive to buy an existing barn (this area--Eastern NC--is full of old, unused tobacco barns), move it to my lot, and renovate it? Would an old-fashioned timber-framed barn even meet code if it were reassembled on a new lot?

I realize that the answer to these questions is "it depends (on the condition of the barn, the local codes, etc.)"--but has anyone gone through the design and build process already, or moved an existing structure to their lot and renovated it? In retrospect, was it a good or bad choice? Any tips on where to start? If you have a great shop building (that wasn't just sitting there already when you bought the place), how'd you come by it? (Every woodworker loves talking about shops, right?

Monty · 09-22-2005, 02:06 PM

Toolferone comes to mind. He might be able to help get you started, although his shop isn't exactly what you're looking for.

Dream Shop Woodworks

In this picture you can see the extension cord that he uses to run power out to the shop!

brenthenze · 09-23-2005, 04:43 PM

Thanks for the suggestion--that's quite a shop--and what a nice web log of the construction process (huzzah, toolferone)! I particularly like the design of the door--it really sets the place off.

gator · 09-28-2005, 06:37 PM

When I built my detached shop I purchased a 16 x 24 garage package from Builders Discount Center.

www.buildersdiscount.net

I settled on 16 x 24 because of space in the back yard and the size of the yard and the size of the house. I didn't want to overpower the yard or the house and 16 x 24 fit well. Because I didn't want to lose any interior wall space in a smallish shop, I traded in the garage door for more windows and upgraded to vinyl siding. I also figured that 98+% of what I build will have to go in through a house door, then it will have to go out through a house door so that is all I have for the shop. I have a three foot drop in grade diagonally across the shop and that was too much dirt to move to pour a slab. I used 15 concrete piers which gave me a crawl space for storage and I ran my DC and electric for the tablesaw through the crawl space also. Not using a slab I had to build a floor system. I used PT joists and sub-floor. As well as all the construction, I also did all the interior rough wiring myself. Not counting the electric drop from the house (in a trench), which I had done by an electrical contractor, I had about $4-5000 in material costs. I insulated the crawl space and walls while building. I will be insulating the roof before this winter.

Woodworkersweb is currently down for maintenance but when it comes up you can see my shop at

http://www.woodworkersweb.com/module...bum.php&page=1

George

Ken Couch · 09-28-2005, 11:30 PM

Brenthenze

I put the first 4 or 5 pictures of the progress of my shop in my album.
Just look in the "Gallery" for Ken's album if you're interested.
The outside is done. The inside is just started.
Ken

Monty · 09-29-2005, 12:18 AM

I just saw those - great pics! You're going to end up with a first-class shop!

Since you're starting from scratch, I would suggest playing around with the shop layout some before you set up the inside. There are free programs available to help with this (like on the Grizzly web site).

I used the Grizzly workshop planner to determine basically how I wanted my shop layout to end up, and I think it really helped with work flow issues... Rough stock near the door - where it's easy to unload from the truck; jointer/planer are near the lumber rack, tablesaw/Compound Miter Saw are next to cut pieces to size, then things like drill press, band saw, work bench, etc... for final fitting and assembly. See my thread on my workshop to see what I mean.

Definitely keep those pics coming!!!

brenthenze · 09-29-2005, 10:35 AM

Thanks for the pics and the ideas--I'm beginning to feel that it's manageable! It looks like lots of folks have elected to modify a garage kit rather than designing and framing a building "from scratch." Is that just because it's more convenient (time-wise), or did y'all find it to be less expensive?

And has anyone noticed that seeing these pics of everyone's shops is sort of like the woodworker's equivalent of watching a strip tease? THIS is what the internet was really made for!

cloudancer · 09-29-2005, 01:19 PM

insomniac,
That shop planer at grizzily is great. I've tried the bob vila one and the one you pointed out is much better.

You should add it to the links section (or if you don't want credit I can

).

gator · 09-30-2005, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by brenthenze

Thanks for the pics and the ideas--I'm beginning to feel that it's manageable! It looks like lots of folks have elected to modify a garage kit rather than designing and framing a building "from scratch." Is that just because it's more convenient (time-wise), or did y'all find it to be less expensive?

And has anyone noticed that seeing these pics of everyone's shops is sort of like the woodworker's equivalent of watching a strip tease? THIS is what the internet was really made for!

For me, the answer is yes on both counts. Convenient - yes, the design work is already done, lots of time saving in trying to figure materials lists. Besides, how simple is a 16 x 24 plain building? Can't be a bunch of different ways for design, its just a lot easier than trying to figure out how many 2x4, 2x6, ply sheets etc etc. Less Expensive - I think that by the time you sit and figure the materials list mentioned above and then the time spent pushing a cart up and down the aisles of the big box loading the material, loading it all on your truck (at least three trips) and unloading it at the job site, not to mention the trips back for something you forgot,----- vs ------- place the order, watch the delivery truck drop it all at the job site and saying thank you, you have saved a bunch of money. By the way, trusses are delivered fully assembled instead of you having to figure angles and assembling 13 trusses.

Yep, would do the same thing over again.

George

gator · 10-02-2005, 08:50 PM

Brent -

I got pictures of the shop up on the gallery here. You can check out the 16 x 24 there.

George

brenthenze · 10-03-2005, 01:27 PM

Nice shop, George--that'll do just fine! My flatbed truck will be arriving at your place around 4:00 to load it all up--you can leave all the tools just as they are!

chris99z71 · 10-05-2005, 09:50 AM

Hey Gator,

I'm looking at building a workbench and I was wondering if that discount builder's center has lumber prices worth me driving 30 min to get there vs. 2min to the big box stores? Any advice?

Mike Wilkins · 11-21-2005, 09:58 AM

Brent, check out the display model garage/barn in front of the Home Depot in Greenville/Winterville. It sits on a 16 X 24 footprint with a set of stairs in the back going upstairs. The 2nd floor has lots of headroom, and would make a great hideout for the guys or to enjoy a stogie. Reasonably priced too.

Bernhard · 11-21-2005, 01:25 PM

Brenthenze,

I just went through this exercise...actually I am still finishing the house.
The shop measures 52lx28wx12h with 3 10x10 insulated garage doors.
My design/building criteria were: Must be able to build by myself to keep cost down, must be energy efficient (heated and cooled), low maintainance, naturally lighted (>>big windows) have easy access for new equipment (that is actually a pipe dream), sheet goods and lumber and must be able to subdivide to accommodate some metalworking area.

The building is a plain rectangular box, the hip roof has a 6' overhang on all sides supported by columns on 12' oc. The overhang is great in summer: keeps direct sunlight out but gives enough natural light.

I used AAC on a monolithic, insulated slab. AAC (autoclaved aerated concrete) is a man-made cement based stone, BUT is very light and has a high r-value. It is a mixture of about 80% air, lime, sand, pozzolam (aka fly ash), portland cement and some proprietary stuff. The stone can be cut with a regular skill or hand saw, holds screws and nails. And the beauty of it all it is glued together with a thinset mortar using a notched trowel. Soooo after the first course is placed using conventual mortar to correct slight imperfection in the slab, the remainder of the block is just stacked using the thinset. That stuff does not require skilled labor, is practically maintainance-free, has a high r-value, is much stronger than conventinal construction, does not rot/warp, can be used to built any form and shape imaginable.
I built my house and shop with AAC by myself. One thing I am regretting: Should have built the shop bigger and the house smaller.

Also, depending on how much land you have you may want to look into getting it registered as a farm. The shop is then a farm building and does not need a building permit.

When I was in the planning stage, I was also considering pre-fab buildings, but they were either ugly or expensive or both.

anyway just some rambling thoughts,

Good luck on the building!!

Bernhard

TominZebulon · 11-21-2005, 02:09 PM

Brent, I agree with Mike. I built the same barn type structure that Home Depot had out front, but I did it from scratch and I put the stairs outside to save some room on the first floor. I also made my first floor height 9' instead of the standard 8'. And my floor is built like a brick ----house! I actually have a materials list I used to order all my lumber from Lowe's (only because they were the closest). It is in a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet if you would like me to e-mail it to you. Just PM or e-mail me if you would like it. The shop is 16x24 and 2 stories like you said you wanted.

Residency requirements