Cost to Remodel

[Matt]

The CFO and I are thinking about buying a "project house" and moving into a world of dust, power tools, and the occasional contractor. Does anyone know of any good calculators or methods to estimate how much it costs to remodel a home?

I know it will depend on the level of the renovation, but there must methods to guess-timate this stuff. Any ideas?

I am sure this will turn into a typical tool purchase (after all, I will need some new tools to remodel with..) where the budget is forgotten somewhere between the truck and the door to Home Depot... I just need to get a handle on where the insanity begins.

[cmartinson]

Well, I'm not sure what remodelling costs are out there but here in Charlotte you could expect to pay a remodelling company $200 and up per SF. Naturally, doing as much as possible yourself can make large differences in cost. What you are cappable of and what your willing to do have a large impact on your costs. One thing you should consider is building new. Building can be done for as little as $100/SF including HVAC, appliances, and a considerable amount of amenities. Remodelling is the most expensive way to get your dream home. This is comming from an experienced remodeller. Also, you need to examine your motives. If you plan on recouping costs than buy a forclosure and rehab it for an excellent gain in equity. To do this you need to pay 30% or more below market for your house.

[Inflatable Screen Door]

Whatever you come up with, double it. Home improvement remodeling projects always start with good intentions and one thing leads to another and before you know waht happend your rebuilding the entire house. The trick is to enjoy the journey. Good luck and have fun with it.

[Bernhard]

Originally Posted by Matt

The CFO and I are thinking about buying a "project house" and moving into a world of dust, power tools, and the occasional contractor. Does anyone know of any good calculators or methods to estimate how much it costs to remodel a home?

I know it will depend on the level of the renovation, but there must methods to guess-timate this stuff. Any ideas?

I am sure this will turn into a typical tool purchase (after all, I will need some new tools to remodel with..) where the budget is forgotten somewhere between the truck and the door to Home Depot... I just need to get a handle on where the insanity begins.

...just watch out that it doesn't cost you your marriage. And no, this isn't a joke. I am in the final stages of building a house myself and there were some close calls. It takes all your free time, all your money and then some, all your energy and everything else suffers for the duration.

If I had to do it over, I would plan much more detailed and much more careful and the timeline.

In my case at least, I think it was worth the effort. Just be prepared for the worst (I wasn't....and I used to work in construction).

Good Luck!!
Bernhard

[Steve D]

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish and your abilities. Are you are buying to keep or sell? How much are you willing to do yourself? What are your skills, what is the condition, etc., etc.

We bought a fixer 2 years ago and made the decision to keep it rather than improve & sell. We were able to get the home well below market because it was 1970's vintage and had never been updated. Structurally the house was fine and the electrical and HVAC were in good order. We ripped out all the flooring, scraped down the textured ceilings and gutted the kitchen. We re-did all of the lighting, repainted everything and had new carpeting put in the bedrooms. I put in hardwood floors and built the cabinets myself. The only things I have contracted out were the carpet, granite countertops and tree removal. When all is said and done we will have about $35K in improvements not counting my labor. A conservative estimate on the increase in value would be $150K so I feel that it was well worth it. Bernard is exactly right though, you need to be prepared to deal with some surprises, stress and of course, some mess!

[Matt]

Thanks for the advice. We are planning to live in the house and do as much of the work as possible ourselves. I like to think I am fairly handy

However, I am not a licensed electrician or plumber so I am sure any of that stuff would have to get contracted out to meet code (not that I couldn't do it).

We have not settled on a house yet, but have noticed that if we are willing to put in some sweat equity our dollars will travel further (theoretically). I just have no idea how to estimate project costs.. If, as mentioned above, it costs $200/ft^2 to remodel - forget it! I will keep my sanity. Speaking of sanity:

Bernhard - thanks for the warning! That has been a subject of much discussion between the wife and I. We think we can do it and we are trying to be as realistic as possible about the stresses...

[NCPete]

Wiring and plumbing can be things you can do yourself, and still meet code. There are a few books I have recently borrowed from MichaelGarner that make wiring not look so bad. If you run the wiring, and make the connections at the outlets, fixtures and switches, you can have a licensed electrician come buy and check everything out before you get the inspection done, you may even have him hook everything into the panel, if that scares you. (it scares me)

after I finish my biz law work tonight, I will hunt down the actual titles, but one is published by the Taunton Press, and the other is a Home Depot text.

[Bernhard]

Matt,
At least in NC you can do your own plumbing, electrical and HVAC work without a license -as long as it isn't done for hire and it is for your own property.
I have the Taunton books mentioned in the last message and some more. If you like to take a look at them, pm me. The books are not bad and for electrical and plumbing highlight building code issues.

One thing I forgot to mention: Once the work is done, it is a good feeling to see the results of your labor.

Bernhard

[Splinter]

Matt,

LOML and I just finished (Dec '05) a 2 year, 5 day a week complete house remodel. During the 2 years we had the house moved, two out buildings moved, then LOML and I took the roof off the outbuildings, added a room on one outbuilding, build a 24x36 garage around the other out building and stripped the siding off the house, removed all the drywall, electrical, plumbing, rearranged the interior walls, replaced part of the sub floor and realigned some of the sub floor. Then we put it all back together. LOML and I did all the carpentry work, cabinets, vanities, flooring, painting, hung all windows and doors, make all window and door trim and a few others things too numerous to mention. We hired conctractors for electrical, plumbing, brick/block and concrete footing, siding and carpenters to install roof trusses and roofer for the new metal roof. The house (I was born in) is about 70 years old and is about 1500SF. I cost a little less than $70 SF to remodel. About 30% more than I planned because of price increases in materials. BTW we are retired and did not live in the house during the remodel. And we are still speaking to each other. BUT it is a LOT of work but very rewarding. I'm not sure I could have done it and worked a full time job. Hope this gives you some ideas. Good luck.

[Matt]

NC Pete / Bernhard - I would love to get the titles to those books. Perhaps I can hunt them down when I make my regular pilgrimage to Home Depot tomorrow. Thanks!

Splinter - Holy cow! You remodeled! I don't think I want to take on quite that ambitious a project, especially since $$ says we will have to live in the house while we remodel. However, I would love to see before and after pics. You must be so proud whenever you look around!

[JohnsonMBrandon]

One exception to doing your own work is Mecklenburg County. They will not let you do your own plumbing, electrical, or hvac work even if its for yourself. There are a few other counties like this but most will let you. The key factor is whether or not you need to have it inspected. If you know what you are doing and it is done right then just keep the shop doors closed and don't tell anyone what you are doing!

[Bernhard]

Matt,

The books I found most helpful:
- Plumbing a House by Peter Hemp
Since I didn't know much about plumbing, this was a very helpful book: very well organized starting with DWV through mounting fixtures. Also lists code requirements. Has a section ontools and techniques, lists pros and cons of different plumbing systems (pex, copper, PB etc).
-Wiring a House by Rex Caldwell
I have some background in this field. I bought the book mainly for code requirements. The NEC (National Clectric Code) is not a book you can use to learn or look up. Rex Caldwell's book is much better distilling the salient part that apply to residential concstruction down to a readable level. He also gives some good tips on technique and suggestions where to go beyond code to get a better installation.
-Drywall by Myron Ferguson
Just hate to hang and/or finish it, but the first thing you' notice if it isn't done right. The book is useful, if you never done it. It just takes practise. One item that made the purchase worth its weight in gold was the "Rocksplicer". This is actually a simple thin board with a cove to join butt joints. It made all the fifference in my installation. I found a source on the net to ship the Rocksplicer from PA.
-Residential Concrete (Concrete exchange)
Excellent primer on concrete: What is does, how it cures, how to cure, how to place, mix, what strength.

...my 2 cents.

Bernhard

[DaveD]

Asking how much it costs to remodel a house is like asking how much does a car cost. It all depends.

I have done some extensive remodelling (did it professionally for a couple of years back in the early 1990's). I build my own 1000 sq ft addition.So here is my 2 cents worth.

Invest in tools and make them good quality professional tools. Forget harbor freight and chi com crap. Air nailers, sawzall, skil (circular) saw, 2', 4' 6' levels, good compound miter saw, 3/8" and 1/2" drill motors (forget the battery powered ones unless you plan to buy something like the Milwaukee 24V guys (big bucks there)). You need a good quality industrial shop vac. The BD $30 special from walmart isn't going to hack it. I happen to be a fan of Milwaukee and Bosch hand power tools.

I probably has $5K in tools I carted around with me and that was jsut the portable/hand tool stuff.

You need to be able to 'think outside of the box'. Many things won't be straight forward or you will run into minor problems.

You need to block off major portions of the house and 'go at it' Dink at it and you still won't be finished 10 years later.

Stay away from cheap faucets, sinks, lights, etc. I'm not saying to buy the best money can buy but to buy quality.

Figure in lots of cost overruns.

If you don't have a full sized pickup truck then buy one. You will need it. You will be able to go to the dump in your sleep before the job is done (or you have to rent a dumpster for the duration of the job).

Expect to spend 99% of your free waking hours doing the work. No more free Saturdays/Sundays.

The wife has to be behind this 200%. The 1st time I ever remodelled my kitchen I gutted the whole thing down to the studs and mounted a sink in a piece of plywood on saw horses for the wife to survive. Temporary plumbing draped on the floor. The stove was on a LONG extension cord. Plastic hung everywhere.

If you can't spend at least 30 hours a week doing this then don't even start. Add in another 10 hours a week for sitting around and planning your next moves and what you need to buy. If you are going to the BORG more than once a week you are wasting time and not planning ahead.

Plumbing and electrical can be learned. If you can tackle the construction part then you should be able to handle the electrical/plumbing part with a little guidance.

I don't know about the rest of you guys but the my wife stays out of the way. She can ask what I'm going to do today, check if I want lunch at lunchtime and then ask how it went at the end of the day. I don't need another boss or someone in the way.

If you have kids (under 16?) then they have NO business being even close to where you are working. Not even for 1 minute or to 'lets go see what daddy is doing'. If I can see you or hear you then you are too close. Its the wife's job to run interference and enforce the rules (I'm working, leave me alone).

Having said all that I'd guess you can save at least 50% by doing the work yourself.

There are some good books out on finish carpentry, remodelling, etc. Look here
http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlc...serTemplate/51

Now go look at the granite counter tops, Grohe bathroom faucets, whirlpool tubs, bosch dishwasher, viking stove/refrigerator, central vac, ceramic tile floors, etc and see what YOU think all this will cost.

If you are going to do extensive exterior remodelling then that is a whole nother subject.

[NCPete]

Bernard mentions below the same Taunton Press/Rex Cauldwell book (Wiring a House) that I have borrowed, the HD book is Wiring 1-2-3. In my reading so far, they complement each other quite well.

[McRabbet]

Superb advice....and a great source for info with the link.

Rob