Artistic definitions... Is woodwork Art?

[cskipper]

I have been reading several different threads lately, and feel that there are a couple common threads. I am hoping we can have a discussion while remaining civil. Remember, our kids may be reading these posts.

What makes a woodworker an artist? Is it the ability to create from scratch? To be able to follow a pattern? To complete a project? To design something that is unmistakably unique? To make it uniquely yours by the ability to modify the plans to make yours different than someone else's? By the care and effort you put into it? What makes one finished work art and another of the same pattern a good piece of woodworking? My scrolling skill level is improving every time I saw, but I don't think that makes me an artist. I think the creativity defines an artist.

So what do ya'll think about different ways of learning, and the definition of an artist?

[b4man]

To me art is simply the result of transforming and manipulating something or things into something else resulting in expression. At what level we achieve that expression determines the degree of artistic ability.

[PeteM]

Art:
the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

Craft:
an art, trade, or occupation requiring special skill, esp. manual skill.

IMO - Woodworking is a craft. There can be a bit of art involved when we create an original piece or add our own touch to a project but woodworkers are craftsman. The art is in the design. Maloof's rocker design is art but the building of it is craft.

The way I see it design is the art and the execution of the design is craft.

pete

[cskipper]

i was going to jump in and say that I agree with Mike's comment about the feeling caused by creating or viewing the work and then I read Pete's definition. I understand that one too. Since the point of this is just to see what folks think, let's see what others have to say.

I am going to split my original thread and let the "how we learn/communicate" run as a separate thread. Mke, I'll split your answer too.

Well, I was goiing to try to split this. It's still a work in progress.

[Big Mike]

It goes without saying that art is in the eye of the beholder.

Craft has given woodworkers a bad name. Some of the scroll sawn stuff you see is junk. What Cathy does is high craft/art.

Where does the term high craft come from you ask? The art director at our local museum hold art critiques once a month. I have had my work evaluated by him on multiple occasions. He has Master in Fine Art so he is very critical of woodworking in general. He finally conceded that my work was high craft. I guess that was the only concession he would make to me.

Enter your work in juried art shows and you will find out very quickly if it is art. If judges from other media decide it is worthy for entry into a show it is art. If people buy it and use it to collect dust it is art.... Someone on this very site asked me if my turned boxes were good for anything or were they just dust collectors. I think I answered that they were good for something as they could be used to contain things but my main purpose was to make something as pretty as I could from a piece of wood.

Take a look at the work of Andi Wolfe, Molly Winton, Art Leistman, Malcolm Tibbetts, David Ellsworth, Dewey Garrett, Jim Christiansen, Mark Kauder, Paul Porter, Tania Radda just to name a few woodturning artists. Most of their work serves no purpose but to be beautiful. This list doesn't begin to list the wonderful woodworkers that are out there making beautiful things. Yes, they are craftsmen but they are also artists.

There was a huge discussion in the world of craft, woodworking and woodturning after the PBS series Craft in America where wood received only the barest mention and pottery, glass, fabric, even quilting was given more time on the series. Craft such as that portrayed on HGTV and seen at the flea markets has done nothing to elevate the opinion that people have of handmade things.

I think the saddest statement I have ever read was in Chris Stott's book on Turning Boxes where he said he was taking a break outside the display tent and overheard some women deciding whether to go in and look. One woman finally said, "Let's don't go in, it is only things that they made themselves....."

[McRabbet]

I believe the terminology "art" versus "craft" here is very difficult to separate. One of the most respected group of artisans in the countery are members of the Southern Highlands Craft Guild (www.southernhighlandguild.org), who are exhibiting many of their creations at their semi-annual Craft Fair yesterday and today. I quote from their website:

"Each exhibiting craftsperson has passed the rigorous jury process to become a member of the Southern Highland Craft Guild. Membership is open to craftspeople who reside in the mountain counties of Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, Maryland, the Carolinas, Tennessee, and the Virginias. Craftspeople who reside within this designated region may apply to become a member in a specified media category of: clay, fiber, glass, leather, manmade materials, metal, mixed media, natural materials, paper, wood and jewelry. The initial phase of standards jury procedure includes a written application and the preliminary screening of the applicant’s work through the presentation of five slides. Part two is the object jury when members of the Standards Committee together with a panel of media specialists, evaluate each applicant’s work. Approximately 10% of applicants are accepted from each jury group."

Are they "artists" or "craftsmen"? They call their work "craft", but I think the word I used that is synonomous with "craftsperson", which is "artisan". Difficult to distinguish the differences...

[Robert Arrowood]

Art is like beauty it's in the eye of the beholder. Not to be critical to anyone by no means. But I do beleave that all ww'ers are artist in there own right. I just went to PeteMs house today {real nice guy}.And a true artist. I have'nt checked his photo's yet if it's not there he needs to post one of his drawing and puzzle.

[Gofor]

To quote Webster:

Art; The disposition or modification of things by human skill, to answer the purpose intended.

Craft: Some special art or skill: dexterity in a particular manual occupation

However, under Craftsman: an artist: sometimes said of one skilled in the mechanics of his art, but lacking higher excellence

And under Artist: a person who does anything very well. with a feeling for form, effect, etc.

So, to me, that means an artist is a superb craftsman.

As for woodworking, an artist not only produces something that looks excellent, but it performs excellently also. (i.e. a good looking pen doesn't mean squat if you can't write with it).

jmtcw-t

Go

[ebarr]

I think that there is a pretty healthy mix here of Artists and Craftsmen. I think that sometimes the Craftsmen on this forum turn in to Artists without knowing that is what they are doing. People spend years honing a craft in traditional ways. Is that bad? I don't think so. Does it make them an Artist. I don't know.

Would you call someone that follows prints and builds a box, cabinet, or pen from a kit or plans an artist? I would consider them more of a craftsman than an artist.

I don't have the ability (yet) to create something without a pattern or print, unless it is pretty simple. So I would not consider myself an artist by any stretch. A pretty handy guy, yes.

To me a true artist is someone that can come up with new ideas. Take their craft or skill in a new direction. Always trying to think outside the box. (no pun intended)

And as Robert said it is in the eye of the beholder and maybe only appreciated by a few. But that is all that it truly needs to be.

I will step down from the alter now. Sorry, I probably need to go to church in the morning now.

[CarlaG]

Many folks have tried for generations to "define" art. When I taught art a few years back, I tried to stress the creative process to my students more so than the "finished piece." Art is a truly personal endeavor and it is the process of creation that makes it art. Regardless of the medium, the time and skill, and the vision that it takes to produce something makes the piece "art." In relation to woodworking, the choice of woods, finishes and designs are endless, so even though working from a pattern, the woodworker must make choices along the process to make the end product something original. Each piece that is made is one-of-a-kind, regardless of the fact that a pattern might have been used. I think where most folks get hung up it the difference between "fine art" and "functional art." Fine art is created with the purpose of involking a feeling whereas functional art, such as woodworking, is created with the intent to be both beautiful and useful. Doesn't make it any less art!! When I sit and paint, I don't "feel" artistic but when I am throwing pottery....I feel like I have truly produced works of art. It is all about the creative process and the feelings invoked while creating something!! Just my tcw....

[NCPete]

Originally Posted by CarlaG

When I sit and paint, I don't "feel" artistic but when I am throwing pottery....I feel like I have truly produced works of art.

When I throw pottery, I just end up with a bunch of shards of clay.

[CarlaG]

Hmmm....if I had my own wheel...maybe some lessons would be in order!! My new wheel is sitting in the shop disguised as a table saw....and my new kiln is disguised as a chop saw ...guess if I want to make something with a spinning machine I had better invest in a lathe instead of a potters wheel .

[rhett]

The ol' art vs craft debate. The answer is more based on opinion than not, I believe. Art most often is there to challenge the viewer or provoke different feelings through the use of a particular craft. That being said, some of the most well know "artists" are lousy craftsmen to some degree. Woodworking is hard to catagorize since it is mostly judged by a given level of craftsmanship. It would be hard for a shody piece of work to make it into someone's collection. Then there is Gary Knox Bennet, the father of studio furniture, who challenged the idea of art vs craft when he made the famous nail cabinet. That piece was a fine example of craftsmanship, but by driving the nail through the front, he was able to produce emotion, making it art.
"Sometime you have to take beauty into your lap and spank it"
Bennett

[NCPete]

you mean this? (link to nail cabinet)