Question for discussion

[steelwheel1999]

I was in the new Wine Store the other day trying to sell some Stoppers.( I got a commissipon spot BTW), the shop owner ask so are you an artist? I was stunned as she looked at my samples. I stood there not nowing what to say, Finaly I said no I am just a guy who likes to play in the sawdust. When she said artist it brought images of Sawdusters work as well as most of you other guys. So My question is are you an artist? Thank You for your thoughts.

Mark

[CarvedTones]

Originally Posted by Ken Massingale

You make a good point Andy. I guess I should have worded it more to address those who refer to themselves as an artist regardless if others consider their work deserving.
And I'm not addressing any member of this forum, I simply have an issue in general with folks who are on an ego trip.

I should probably have not been so blunt and worded better also. I have run across a lot of people who are more concerned with themselves being percieved as artists than they are with expressing themselves through a medium, which I think is wat you are getting at. I don't care what you call me, but it would bother me if you said my carving was not art because birds' heads aren't really shaped like that...

[Glennbear]

The only label I give myself is woodworker, if others perceive me as an artist, artisan, or craftsman I will happily accept that especially if it helps me sell stuff.

[Trent Mason]

Originally Posted by Ken Massingale

If I make a piece and you think it's art and want to call me an artist, that's fine with me. If you think it's crap and you want to call me a moron, that's fine too.

Wouldn't that be Crapper instead of moron Trent?

I think it's a "craptist" actually. Ok, maybe I should go with that.

[Mike Davis]

No muse was identified with the visual arts of painting and sculpture. In ancient Greece sculptors and painters were held in low regard, somewhere between freemen and slaves, their work regarded as mere manual labour.[1]
The word art is derived from the Latin "ars", which, although literally defined means, "skill method" or "technique", holds a connotation of beauty.
During the Middle Ages the word artist already existed in some countries such as Italy, but the meaning was something resembling craftsman, while the word artesan was still unknown. An artist was someone able to do a work better than others, so the skilled excellency was underlined, rather than the activity field. In this period some "artisanal" products (such as textiles) were much more precious and expensive than paintings or sculptures.
The first division into major and minor arts dates back to Leon Battista Alberti's works (De re aedificatoria, De statua, De pictura), focusing the importance of intellectual skills of the artist rather than the manual skills (even if in other forms of art there was a project behind). [2]
With the Academies in Europe (second half of XVI century) the gap between fine and applied arts was definitely set.
Many contemporary definitions of "artist" and "art" are highly contingent on culture, resisting aesthetic prescription, in much the same way that the features constituting beauty and the beautiful, cannot be standardized easily without corruption into kitsch.
[edit]The present day concept of an 'artist'

Artist is a descriptive term applied to a person who engages in an activity deemed to be an art. An artist also may be defined unofficially, as, "a person who expresses themselves through a medium". The word also is used in a qualitative sense of, a person creative in, innovative in, or adept at, an artistic practice.
Most often, the term describes those who create within a context of 'high culture', activities such as drawing, painting, sculpture, acting, dancing, writing, filmmaking, photography, and music—people who use imagination, talent, or skill to create works that may be judged to have an aesthetic value. Art historians and critics will define as artists, those who produce art within a recognized or recognizable discipline.
The term also is used to denote highly skilled people in non-"arts" activities, as well—crafts, law, medicine, alchemy, mechanics, mathematics, defense (martial arts), and architecture, for example. The designation is applied to high skill in illegal activities, such as "scam artist" (a person very adept at deceiving others, often profiting (semi-illegally) from other people) or "con artist" (a person very adept at committing fraud).
Often, discussions on the subject focus on the differences among "artist" and "technician", "entertainer" and "artisan," "fine art" and "applied art," or what constitutes art and what does not. The French word artiste (which in French, simply means "artist") has been imported into the English language where it means a performer (frequently in Music Hall or Vaudeville). Use of the word "artiste" can also be a pejorative term.[3]
The English word 'artist' has thus, a narrower range of meanings than the word 'artiste' in French.



So, to me an artist is one who creates new and original works in any of the fine arts, crafts, music or dance.

If all you do is copy a pattern from a book and never make your own designs then you are not an artist no matter how well you copy someone else's work.

[erasmussen]

Me thinks its all just a point of view.
I think I am a wanna be craftsman
The studio that sells my things calls me an artiest
And my wife calls me an _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (better not use them words here)

[ErnieM]

So, to me an artist is one who creates new and original works in any of the fine arts, crafts, music or dance.

If all you do is copy a pattern from a book and never make your own designs then you are not an artist no matter how well you copy someone else's work.

Mike's comments (above) are very interesting. I have a friend who is, IMHO, a great artist. He has produced copies of many of the great historical paintings. On the other hand, we can cite examples of people throwing buckets of paint at a canvas, or elephants "painting" with their trunks. Mike's definition would allow the paint throwers and elephants to be called artists, but not my painter friend.
Something there doesn't seem quite right.

Many years ago I visited an art gallery. Hanging on the wall was a painting with a price tag of $1500.00. The painting was about 2 feet wide x 1 foot high. The bottom half was painted solid blue and the top half solid red. Is this art? It may or may not be, depending on your definition. At the time, my definition was simple: If I can do it..... it's not art. Now, with many years under my belt, I must admit my definition has not changed much. Art is in the eye of the beholder.

Ernie Miller (Harpsichord Maker)

[Mike Davis]

Ernie,

The first three words I typed were "So, to me". I can't help what anybody else thinks or how my thoughts may or may not affect them. (in most cases I'm sure there is no effect)

I have been involved in discussions where the very same painting would or would not be considered art depending on what surface the paint was applied. Canvas = art Plywood = trash. Same exact painting...

[Don Sorensen]

Back to the original question - I call myself a "woodworker", too. That covers all the stuff I may work on. Book shelves in the spare room. My ever expanding DVD and CD racks. The scrollwork pieces I put out occasionally. The cabinets I build for the workshop. The cabinets I build for my kitchen. It's all "working with wood".

If somebody likes my stuff and calls me an "artist" or a "craftsman" - Well thank you!

If somebody doesn't like my stuff and calls me a craptist - the door is over that way and why are you hanging around?

I prefer working with wood, though assembly model cars, working on real cars, or even general metalworking can be just as satisfying. It's the focus on the "here and now" and the occasional problem solving that allows me to tune out all the "petty things" that I enjoy most about these hobbies.

Make no mistake, I admire the work all you guys turn out. I hope one day to achieve that level of enjoyment in my skills. Right now, I still get a kick if 3 parts I cut all fit together the way they were supposed to.

[CarvedTones]

In online forums, knowinf how to really stir the pot is an art form, so I guess I am an artist...

[cpowell]

Originally Posted by steelwheel1999

I was in the new Wine Store the other day trying to sell some Stoppers.( I got a commissipon spot BTW), the shop owner ask so are you an artist? I was stunned as she looked at my samples. I stood there not nowing what to say, Finaly I said no I am just a guy who likes to play in the sawdust. When she said artist it brought images of Sawdusters work as well as most of you other guys. So My question is are you an artist? Thank You for your thoughts.

Mark

Nope. This is just a hobby for me. Started as a way to build furniture more cheaply than I could buy it for. Now I find it relaxing. I love the sound a sharp plane makes as I make shavings too.


Chuck

[DavidF]

Originally Posted by Don Sorensen

Right now, I still get a kick if 3 parts I cut all fit together the way they were supposed to.

Wow! you can get THREE bits to fit!! boy you ARE an artist....

[steelwheel1999]

Originally Posted by erasmussen

Me thinks its all just a point of view.
I think I am a wanna be craftsman
The studio that sells my things calls me an artiest
And my wife calls me an _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (better not use them words here)

Your wife and mine must be sisters thats what mine call me to

[steelwheel1999]

Well now on a serious note. I would like to thank everyone who has replied. I have enjoyed reading every response and I have taken something away from all of them (Crapist You Guys kill me). This is what I love about this site. the fact that we all have our own opinions and we all agree that its ok that way. Again thanks for you thoughts comments and humor. Have agreat day

mark

[Bas]

If it's useful and looks good, it was made by a craftsman.
If it's not useful and looks good, it was made by an artist.
If it's not useful and does not look good, it was made by a lumberjack (since it's about to become firewood).
What do I call myself? Hobbyist. I like to keep expectations low.

All kidding aside, I think woodworking becomes art when the creator is able to express something with the work. We talk about making a table "elegant". We like the "clean lines". That all begins with craftsmanship - making a square drawer, creating a mortise-and-tenon joint that fits well. But once you can go beyond that, and not let function or technique dictate the form, then you're in art territory.

The stuff Earl does with his segmented vessels is a classic example. He worries about the aesthetics of the neck, is it too long/ short/ wide etc. Most of us are still trying to pick our jaws off the floor over the craftsmanship. Of course, every time you worry about how a piece looks, you introduce a bit of art. But once it's mostly about looks, then it's true art.

In that sense, throwing buckets of paint at a canvas also qualifies as art. It is all about how it looks, it has transcended the technique. Not surprising, since the technique is mastered at the age of three (when you learn how to throw plates of food )